Worried about Reform Electoral Victory

[RolandH]

Hello everyone,

I'm worried about a possible Reform electoral victory. I do disagree with alot of their policies, but the main thing which concerns me is, if they get in, I have doubts about whether they will preserve the integrity of our electoral system.

Looking at far right governments around the world just now, many of them seem to be happy to attempt to undermine the electoral process. Trump tried to after he lost to Biden, and I doubt that the next election in the US will be free and fair, as the republicans will be trying to replace the electoral officials with their people. In Hungary, the free press has been repressed. Things can obviously get worse than this.

I would like to hear if other people are worried about this, for people who are thinking about voting Reform or have done have thought about it, and also how people who are committed Reform voters would respond to this. Will you be ready to fight against this party if it looks like they are taking the country in an anti-democratic direction?

Yet Farage has spoken about getting rid off statutory rights like maternity pay. We have a cost of living crisis, soaring house prices, stagnant wages and he expects women to live on savings.

But the problem would be for the women who want children and who want a career. That's what my mam wanted, and managed to have, but it certainly wasn't easy. Anything that makes it easier would actually be a bonus for the country in the long run, as our birthrate is too low currently, but that would only be acceptable if women have the option of staying at home, or working.

However, you're right, it would be an improvement on now, when the support isn't there to encourage women who want kids to have them. I wouldn't trust Reform not to take it too far, however, if they got the opportunity. My sister has never wanted children - she certainly shouldn't be penalised or pressured for that.

Well, I can't see that being popular with hardly anyone, thankfully. Not to say they won't do it.

They're being racist in Scotland. I'm shocked and stunned I tell you.

The problem with that is that children don't choose their parents, and if you don't support them, we have an increase in child poverty, which costs society more in the long run at the very least.

Also, we actually have a declining population (excluding immigration). Oddly, this now seems to be a trend over much of the world - look it up, it's very interesting. Reasonable policy to support people to have kids is a good thing.

You do get people saying stuff like this, and it does turn my stomach, but most of the people who vote Reform either won't think this, or won't really have thought it through.

Calling people "stupid" or "awful" doesn't work. It's been tested to destruction over the last 25 years+. If it was going to work, it would have done so now. And also, most of these people aren't stupid or awful. They're trying to respond to declining living standards, rising costs, and the delapidation of much of our civic infrastructure and town centres. None of the major parties have managed to turn these things around. So they are going for "something new", as I have often heard Reform described.

The problem is that the major parties have offered much of the country no progress. I'm a socialist, so I know what I think the solutions largely involve taxing the insane levels of wealth disparity we currently have - both here and around the globe. But whatever the solution is, it is not more of the same.

Who said anything about not supporting families with kids?

I'm all in favour of supporting families with kids. I'm just not in favour of the tax payer supporting people to be SAHPs.

Fair enough - I'm hardly happy that none of those countries are liberal democracies, except Israel. But I actually don't know enough about each of the gulf states, and their neighbours, to say in what exact way each of them are lacking.

What I take the far right to be interested in is curbing certain liberal freedoms and rights (particularly those of minorities), and undermining the rule of law if it goes against policy goals, supporting traditional hierarchies in society, being against wealth distribution (they aren't alone in this, and may be less wedded to it than certain conservatives for instance) and, importantly, trying to remain in power once gained - i.e. not acting like a loyal opposition. Obviously we could come up with a few more hallmarks. Any country which roughly fits into this I'm happy to say has either a far right government, or at least something functionally similar.

The examples don't matter. It's whether you can speak your mind freely, vote your government out freely, expect that you won't fall through the cracks if problems happen in your life, and won't be discrimiminated against.

Is your problem with people claiming more benefits than they are entitled to, or having those benefits at all?

Some sort of guest worker scheme is worth exploring/debating.

I think I remember that many economic migrants don't settle in the country they migrate to, so this may be less of a problem than you're thinking. But on a global scale - yeah, it's not a sustainable system (as with many things).

And the kinds of parties our political system is throwing up are pretty shoddy. The only thing more depressing to a socialist like me is how much more useless everyone to the left of Labour at actually trying to achieve some political power. The Greens are the only ones making any kind of gains. Though I guess the Lib Dems are in practical terms left of Labour just now as well.

Would you leave your family behind for a minimum wage job? Offering £15k at the end is pretty insulting.

What if you fall in love and get married to someone from a different country? This actually happened to a friend of mine. He married an American. Didn't earn enough for her to come over here, so he had to live in America for 8 years (which is a hellhole if you don't have money), and only recently has been able to move back when their circumstances luckily changed.

Hold on - most economic migrants work and pay into our social security. They pay for their own pensions, the same way most people do in this country. On average, they put more into the system than people who were born here. Even if I am mistaken about this, if someone works enough they pay into the system enough. That's the whole point of the stupid rules Theresa May brought in that you have to earn a certain amount before you have marry a foreign spouse (in essence).

And in terms of social care - well, that whole system is knackered as it stands. Everyone has to pay through the nose if they have any kinds of savings and assets.

I hope the country can rally and find its sense (and be horrified by what's going to continue to unfurl in America), but the current government does seem determined to hand victory to hard right by trying to be it, but without even believing in what they're doing. 🙄

Also I'm sure many hard right ultra-wealthy inviduals and organisations will be queueing up to fund Reform, knowing they'll get kickbacks and the policies they want from them if they win (tax cuts for the richest, removing LGBTQ+ rights, eroding women's rights, taking away worker rights and protections, right wing propaganda in schools, book banning etc)

I don't think it's a shoo-in they will win it, they have a long way to go and large areas of the country that will not vote for them in government, and there is still a lot of infighting and drama meaning they might finish themselves off. But I don't think a victory should be ruled out as a possibility either given the powerful backing they will get.

I completely agree with you re: choice. But no where on that list does it say women would be managed out of the workplace, only that there would be more support for women who wanted to be a sahp.

Indeed! Far more fascist. Homophobic, misogynistic, antisemitic, anti free speech. Horrific.

You are right to be concerned. We have to guard liberal democracy, and the freedoms we take for granted. They're easily lost, having been very hard won.

Interesting, although in some ways the Lib Dems are to the right, but it's all a bit foggy, especially with everything relating to the EU.
The Greens have had problems and I think need a sharper manifesto.

Without wanting to be arsey OP, why do you think our current electoral system has any integrity? Where is the integrity in ANY of the UK's political apparatus?

FPTP is an absolute joke.

Why? Do you not value SAHP's?

I value all good parents but I don't particularly care if they SAH or WOH - their lifestyle choices are their personal business and not my concern. If people want to SAH and can afford to do so, then that's entirely their prerogative, but I don't see any reason for the taxpayer to subsidise those choices.

Wow - so only for the wealthy then. Glad not everyone thinks like this.

Well, only for those who can afford it, yes. I don't think anyone has a right to SAH, but it's fine for people to choose that option if they are able to support themselves.

However, I am absolutely in favour of better support for parents with disabled children who are unable to work because of their caring responsibilities, because that is a necessity rather than a choice.

JasmineAllen- Exactly, and its about time. All the other parties bang on about is more free childcare for increasingly young babies and toddlers, which directly discriminates against those who would prefer to stay at home. People are very quick to say they don’t want their taxes going to single income families, well my DH doesn’t want his taxes funding other people’s childcare.

Child benefit has been discriminatory towards single income families for years. I have friends where they can’t receive it because DH earns just over £50K, yet if two parents earn £49K a year each, so almost £100K in total, they can still receive child benefit- nope, that’s not on, and it needs sorting.