A Christian sermon is now more controversial than a nazi salute! WTF!

[StandFirm]

Republicans' reactions to Rev Mariann Budde include calls for her to be booted out of the US due to her sermon reminding the congregation (which included Pres. Trump) that the Christian message features some very basic principles such as treating others with humanity and respect. Georgia congressman Mike Collins Budde, a US citizen, “should be added to the deportation list” because of it. So, is the US now a place where people will condemn the basic tenets of Christianity but celebrate a nazi-saluting notorious proponent of trans-humanism (why doesn't Trump call out this frankly creepy and downright wicked pursuit and picks on vulnerable people instead?)? What of freedom of expression? A one-way street? Those who branded the Reverend 'leftist' and closed their ears to her message should not be calling themselves Christians.
One of my good friend lives in Georgia. She told me that one of her local church ministers got told off by his congregation for talking about the ten commandments because 'too leftist'. I shit you not. I don't normally pray - at least not publicly- but really, God help us all!

There seems to be a contradiction here:

Next you'll see them burning books they don't like, rounding up journalists who print stuff they don't like and black listing them
...
Platforms like Twitter and Facebook should filter out anything hateful, violent and discriminatory...it's no different to having TV content filtered

Oh for goodness sake it was very clearly not a nazi salute. He was talking about his heartfelt thanks to the people in the audience and then put his hand over his heart and extended his arm to those in the audience in front of him and behind him.

I dislike Musk but I value honesty and integrity more than my dislike of any individual.

Calling this a nazi salute makes the left look absolutely bonkers and this type of mad rhetoric from the left is part of the reason the Democrats lost.

If the lesson you took from the recent defeat is that you didn't call people nazi's often enough, then you learnt the wrong lesson.

Kind of weird then that so many people, from Jewish communities to far right groups, have taken it as a nazi salute.

President Macron made exactly the same gesture at one his rallies by the way. Is he a nazi too?

Being so ideologically captured that you see everything through your ideological lens is not limited to any particular groups.

I form my opinions on the evidence I see in front of me, not on who else thinks what. Its very clear in the context of the speech that the gesture was to extend the heartfelt thanks he was talking about.

Macron does the same and no-one called him a nazi.

Has he?
Can you signpost me to a video of him doing it please?

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1882553556093571563

Here you go. He's clearly using it in the same way as Musk; to show heartfelt appreciation.

But all the people who want to see those they disagree with as not just wrong but evil nazis, you just keep on doing that and destroying the left. Don't bother learning any lessons from the Democrat defeat 🙄

That does not look the same to me

That's not even remotely akin to what Musk did. Nor it is akin to the Nazi salute. If you can't see the difference, you're being wilfully blind.

Honestly, the apologists for this are just astonishing. We know what he did. He knows exactly what he did. And he's getting away with it.

Another interesting comparison is who has been trying to get who banned over the last 5 to 10 yrs.

Dear Lord! Its the same movement. Hand placed over the heart and then an outstretched arm towards the people he is showing appreciation of. Same movement. Same context.

The only difference is Musk is slightly more angular and stiff in his movements - but then that's his body movements in general. So that difference would be expected. Its the same gesture, in the same context, but slightly delivered differently in someone who has more relaxed body language than in someone who has stiffer more angular body language.

The desperation to see this movement, out of context of what he was in actually talking about, but only in context of your pre-existing belief that people with politics you dislike are nazis, is absolutely blatant.

You believe its the same and I do not.

The Rev Mariann Budde spoke truth to power
👊🏻😇

there are so many people jumping to defend Musk , deny his far right links and and deny it's a nazi salute, I'm wondering if some people are being paid to troll and infiltrate MN lately. All over every board. Defending Tommy Robinson, defending Nazi salutes, defending trump and Musk. It's disturbing.

But you can't defend your position. I can quite clearly outline mine.

Ok, Musk delivered this movement in the context of expressing heartfelt thanks to all the people who worked for and supported the Republican election campaign.
Are you saying that this is the context in which the Nazi's delivered their salutes? Was it an expression of heartfelt gratitude delivered in moments of exuberant joy?

No. But you will maintain your position despite it being delivered completely out of context of the purpose of actual Nazi salutes.

Because you are ideologically and tribally committed to your position despite all reason, all context and all evidence.

No. Not defending Musk. Just countering blatant untruths.

Honesty and integrity matter. I argue against people making wrong arguments and untruths even when they are arguing for a position I hold deeply myself. Because I value honesty and integrity.

We don't agree and that is OK. I know what I see in Musks video.
It is a shame though that you don't feel confident enough in your opinion that you have to get others to validate it.
And you have no idea at all what my ideology is

StandFirm

*it seems some people care so passionately about women's sports that they're willing to throw away all the social progress made in the last 50 years"

But you are happy to throw away years of hard forth for women's rights?

"in the same of something that I bet they NEVER watched in the first place!*

This is one of the weakest arguments ever, and shows that you have no idea about how hard it has been for women to not only get their own sports but how much sports scholarships are worth in the US.

"I get that self-ID is controversial. Get it. But it's been weaponised to death. Can we please park that aside and keep working on a fairer society where no one is discriminated against."

How can you put this aside when the premise of men in women's sports is being validated by one side that claims that they care about "working on a fair society"?

That's just common sense and instead of going full on Gilead, we should keep working on better mechanisms to make that happen.

Yes we should keep working on it, but that isn't going to happen when one side's mantra is #nodebate.

And lets not forget about trans lesbians and their female penis

I just watched both to compare, they’re not the same movement.

Musk, sort of ‘punches’ out at an angle to his body with a stiff and pointed arm and hand and has a tightened expression on his face. Macron puts a softer arm and hand up in front of him in the general direction of the crowd while he is smiling.

There’s a huge difference in both videos

I'm waiting for my Irish passport to come through, definitely got Ireland as my escape plan if needed.

All you have described is the difference in their body language. Musk has awkward stiff body language in all his movements. It wasn't something he only did in this moment. All his movements are like this.

To make the nazi case you have to ignore:

1. Musk's normal body language and movement
2. The context of his speech, and what he has just been saying about heartfelt thanks
3. the fact that Nazis salutes were not given in the context that Musk did.

@dogfrogdog

Very, very revealing that you find people valuing integrity and honestly more than agreeing with their 'tribe' to be laughable. Very revealing.

@birdsstartagain what's revealing is all the pro right sympathisers flooding MN with their weird pro fascist agenda.

And FWIW I just looked up what Lammy has said about Trump - and agree.

a “tyrant in a toupee,” a “serial liar and a cheat,” “deluded, dishonest, xenophobic, narcissistic” — and “no friend of Britain.”

Not really sure how you can disagree with that (ok maybe not the toupee part but that is pretty funny).

https://kaeleytrillerharms.substack.com/cp/155571392

A good article here that articulates some of why I found the clips of that sermon so distasteful.