Angry at scrapping of 2 child limit

[BearBuggy]

I know there are a few families that find themselves in rotten circumstances and this isn’t aimed at them . However I live in an area where having children to continue to receive benefits was the norm and only now the cap is in place has that stopped.

The Scottish government has now announced it will be scrapped. I am so angry I’m paying towards people breeding children they can’t afford. I didn’t vote SNp this time because of this, as did many of my friends. They lost heavily in my area but still seem to not care what the tax payer is saying.

@BearBuggy I fully agree with you.

There is poverty where I live but you could throw a lot of money at it and those children would remain just as disadvantaged. It's more complex.

This policy was hardest on people at the time it was introduced. I think putting it back when you don't know how long you can sustain it is a bad move and will trap people further down the line.

Plus there's the Scottish child payment.

It really won't make financial sense for people to work anything other than the most basic hours which breeds greater poverty in the long term.

My own family managed to stop popping out babies when this happened, no doubt I'll have to look at them dragging about multiple children again. I find it very sad.

The people I know who are living the high life on benefits collect benefits and also rely on their parents. I know someone who went on holiday on benefits, he has always lived with parents and they pay for everything. He also has 30k in savings which he puts in his dad's account so he is eligible to claim jsa long term. But such people less likely to have kids anyway.

Sadly in many British families, there is often 1 child which is enabled by parents to do nothing while being the golden child. They would live in luxury with or without benefits but benefits offer them a nice top up.

So I can only on my own experiences if living in a rotten area. It’s regularly spoke about but of course that’s only one section of society.
Ive already had my own sister on the phone to say her husband is delighted as less pressure for him to go back to work now.

I'm 42 years old grafted every day of my life untill u was 40 in a high paid job with high paying tax. I have 3 kids.
Now I am disabled with no hope of recovery did I every think I would find myself in this position absolutely not .do i hate relying on hand outs of course I do .Just feel ashamed.
But people like some of you should learn a lesson anyone of you could end up in my situation my life litrally changed overnight.
You should only look down on people when your helping them up. Be humble.

Nurses are paid more and yes they also pay more tax but despite this they still take home in their hand more than they would in England. It has also been agreed that nurses (in fact all NHS Scotland staff except doctors) hours will be reduced to 36 a week by I think April 25 and still earn same money. In England nurses/NHS staff still work a 37.5 hour week

But it’s not the taxpayer faults either - not my choice to have that many kids so why make me pay for them.

Would you bring another child into your situation? It’s not about those who find themselves in hardship. It’s about targeting those he need help (ie children) in the best way. And this policy doesn’t do that.

How much was child benefit before cuts were made? (not the cap).
I've heard from one person who would know, he's approx 37 years old (reliable because he lived around it) and he said when he was growing up, there were plenty of women having children for benefits purposes and gave an example where he said they fed them very cheaply on fish fingers and chips (his words).

Maybe replacing the child benefits with vouchers that can only be spent on groceries and children’s items would be a compromise

This just infantalises people on benefits. They're not stupid. I would hazard a guess most people in receipt of benefits are brilliant at budgeting and every penny absolutely counts.

Giving vouchers doesn't allow for changes in circumstances - the illness or injury requiring someone to be home more so the heating needs to be on more than before so a budget shuffle is required; having someone you care about in hospital so another budget shuffle is required so you've got the bus fare/car parking fee to visit; being the person in the current climate who likes their heating on the 'tropical' setting requires a budget juggle....I could go on.

You should not aim to take away from the thousands of people out there who effectively manage their budgets in what are currently very difficult financial circumstances. They need every penny they can get.

I think we should be angrier that people are having children without any thought of how they will provide for them and just putting that responsibility into the hands of others to make sure their children don’t starve etc. The answer isn’t to limit support for the children but there should be a lot more censure for irresponsible reproduction. Life is hard and kids don’t need to be born into poverty. I will judge you if you’re having children without any thought of how you will financially support them.

It’s more helpful to see this as a children’s rights issue. Every child should have a right to the basics - food, shelter, warmth, education, love.

How does this work in other european countries? Where benefits are more generous but are time-limited and more related to tax / insurance paid?

Your second paragraph contradicts your first paragraph. You said that the highest proportion of households with three or more children are the lowest income families, but then you quoted a figure of 43% for those low income families with 3 or more children.

43%, while admittedly a high percentage, is not a higher number than 57%.

I fell pregnant with our child the first month we tried. I don’t love him any less than the first child in your above example.

I think as pp have suggested that poverty is complex and having seen it first hand myself I don't think more money is the answer nor do a think a hang em high approach is right neither.I think the government need to do more to support children in poverty outside of the home eg surestart,free breakfast clubs, after school clubs, homework clubs, education, mentoring and a route out of poverty for those children's future by helping those children see a way out eg scholarships,apprenticeships, self esteem etc.

What about people who already have 3+ children who suddenly find themselves in poverty when they weren't before?

Well, the reduction in hours deal is not working out too well in Scotland. At the moment they are meant to finish 15-20mins early a few times a month, guess it depends where you work in nhs though😑

For crying out loud, every single one of us knows someone who exploits the benefit system

You certainly don't speak for me and who I know.

If you've had two children and raised them on benefits, it's perfectly reasonable for society to say "look, we've had to pay for you to raise two kids, if you have a third you're going to have to pay for it yourself." Why is that so outrageous?

Because the system also penalises women - and it is usually and almost exclusively women - who had, say, 3 children in good faith within a long term relationship which later broke down or where a partner died. I have been a single parent for nigh on 16 years - in the early days with a baby I didn't know I was pregnant with until the ex had walked out for OW. It took me a couple of years to get my act together, such was the impact on my mental health, but I have worked full time since. What is clear to me now that I am no longer eligible for benefits (2 of the children still live with me) because of what I earn, is just how much tax credits helped me in those early days of separation and divorce and how I was able to take the time to get my ducks back into a row and myself into the work place. It would have been very different if the system only recognised 2 of my children.

And what is genuinely outrageous is that 16 years later, the CSA/CMS has never been able to get its act together to get maintenance out of my ex. You should be pissed off at that above everything else. The sheer lack of indifference, the (male) shrugged shoulders that children are financially abanndoned by one of their parents and we blame the other parent because 'she should have known what kind of man he is'. No. I didn't. He said he would 'dig ditches' for his family if he had to. He sure as hell hasn't.

It’s interesting to me that the criticism of child benefit is mostly directed at families in poverty.

We receive £42.45 child benefit per week (both teachers). We spent £32 per week on swimming lessons.

Shouldn’t you be angry at people like us, spending tax payers’ money on swimming lessons? Rather than being angry at the people who struggle to feed their children?

The answer isn’t to limit support for the children but there should be a lot more censure for irresponsible reproduction

You know you belong somewhere like North Korea, right?

Well quite. Plus the households where each parent can be on 95k and still receive child benefit.

That money is meant for scratchcards, booze, fags, and giant flatscreen TV's! 😡

Who said you did?

1 million net immigrants per year is absolutely not needed to replace our population.

To keep a steady population you need 2.1 births per woman (in a first world country). UK birthrate is 1.57 births per woman

So for full replacement, we need an extra 0.53 people per woman in the UK every 30 years (average maternal age).

That's 600k per year, not 1 million

And given that we're 13 million up from a generation ago - a whopping 20% increase in just 30 years - I think we could go a bit lower than that to gently reduce back down.

Of course I wouldn't now,but the policy would help children like mine who's parents can no longer work.
My point was that my children had always lived a privileged life now they live on benefits because I do. When I made the choice to have my children I could more than afford them
There are many reasons people find thereselfs on benefits and I just don't like this judgey mentality.

You can't expect the same people to keep paying into every pot and never get anything back.