Why do some people think Trump is a good man?

[Lyannaa]

There are a lot of people, even in the UK who act like you have offended their mum or dad if you point out what an awful person he clearly is. Even his own family don't like him and plenty of people have said how his relationships with his own children are merely transactional.

If people like him, is it because they are fascists themselves deep down? Or is it some type of mass hysteria?

The minimising of the insurection has been quite amusing. I've seen it described as a 'handful of tourists. '

I think if people are weak or desperate they want a strong man daddy figure to make it all ok for them. I kind of get it.

God RingoJuice do you wear sunglasses when you read the news? I suppose at least you didn't deny that he mocked a reporter with cerebral palsy, like the bully he is.

Here’s the transcript. He said nothing of the sort: https://www.politifact.com/article/2019/apr/26/context-trumps-very-fine-people-both-sides-remarks/

And it’s ridiculous to say there was a Muslim ban. It was a ban on refugees from countries with a terrorism problem (remember ISIS) and only involved countries with a known threat. And it was an executive order that was crafted by Obama, so you could say it was bipartisan.

That you link from Amnesty of all places is hilarious though, such a biased source.

I guess the Muslim ban would be a big surprise to Indonesia, Bangladesh and Malaysia. How could he have forgotten the most populous Muslim nation in the world???!!!????

I don’t feel the need to defend everything he does. I don’t need my leader to be some upstanding moral character. That way leads to leaders like Jimmy Carter and Kier Starmer. Nice men, bad policies.

I want the most effective leader and I believed Trump would be effective on the issues I care about. End of story.

Reading that politifact transcript- fucking hell. Trump's focus was entirely to pretend he could defend a group who apparently had nothing at all to do with the protesting Nazis they were there with, but were there to try and keep statues of Robert E Lee up. You know who tries to keep the narrative about Robert E Lee going? Racists who regret the Confederacy, that's who. Racists and birthers like Trump. Imagine spending so much energy saying that Tweedledum was very fine but Tweedledee wasn't.

Well, I do get it. Tbh I like Starmer's ruthlessness and his focus, and I don't think he's a perfect angel either, though I do think he shouldn't give up trying to explain what he's doing - like his work at the momentto build and rebuild international relationships that ae essential to an exposed trading island like us. I've read quote after quote from US voters who say 'I don't like Trump or anything he says but I believe he will do things I want' and that's fine - except people make it sound like a continuum. Like accepting a suit from a donor and not declaring it quickly enough is the same as INCITING A VIOLENT INSURRECTION TO AVOID CONCEDING AN ELECTION. These things are not the same.

Robert E Lee is a very well respected general admired by both sides of the Civil War and as such, his statue is worth defending.

If you can’t understand this, maybe you should not be commenting on American politics

You say "He said nothing of the sort" then include a link that shows I'm bold type that he said there were some very fine people in both sides. I already knew what he said in what context as I watched the interview at the time.

You say it's ridiculous to say there was a Muslim Ban, Trump's own aids called it a Muslim ban. It wasn't only refugees that were banned but all nationals from certain countries. What sort of person bans refugees anyway? en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_travel_ban

Yes, pesky old Amnesty International, defending people's human rights.

You carry on defending Trump but many of us see him for what he is.

IKR, I've seen it described as something caused by ANTIFA. The delusion is another level.

Robert E Lee was a traitor waging war against the US government.

I didnt say anything against Lee's military record. Yes Lee was an excellent general for the Confederate cause and deserves his place in history and museums, just like Colston in Bristol who was a big donor to his city. People who turn out in the 2000s to defend these statues being up in modern cities do so because they are racists and it's become a racist symbolic cause.

I think stick to saying you don't care at all about the character or public words of a President, however bad they are, only about policies. I'll continue to disagree with you that it doesn't matter what leaders say.

Can you elaborate on the "mess"?

Because from what I read their economy is strong, job growth is huge, crime very much down, moves to address environmental issues gaining strides, stock market at record highs.

You literally said he called white supremacists ‘very fine people’ and he did not.

And it doesn’t matter who calls it a ‘Muslim ban’ when it leaves out the majority of the Muslim world? It’s just false. Seven out of what, 30+ countries?

You might ban refugees from certain countries when those refugees come from places where ISIS and other terror groups have taken root.

And yeah Amnesty is biased. They are activists and are coming from that angle. So I would not be sure of an unbiased assessment from them tbh.

As I said, if you cannot properly understand the American Civil War then please refrain from commenting on American politics.

He said there were very fine people on both sides.
So America and others bomb Iraq, killing tens of thousands of people, destroying homes, displacing people over the completely false premise that Iraq had weopens of mass destruction - then they refuse asylum to people fleeing the hell on earth that they've created. You may think this is wonderful, I do not.
You say you don't feel a need to defend Trump yet I've dozens of posts from you on multiple threads doing just that.

People who turn out in the 2000s to defend these statues being up in modern cities do so because they are racists and it's become a racist symbolic cause

Why should our history be torn down? I’m not even a southerner and I have several male ancestors who participated in the war on the Union side. Yet I don’t think Robert E Lee statues should be torn down. It’s part of our history and as such should be respected and understood in context.

I don’t think we should take refugees from a war we’ve caused. Too much bad blood, they’ve every right to hate us. Plenty of other countries that can host them until things stabilize.

(fwiw I think GWB is literally the worst president in my lifetime. But I don’t think this obligates us to take refugees from countries that by all rights should hate us).

Cities being ruined, groceries and rents have gone up massively, fuel was super high for a couple many of years, only being lowered recently by biden to get votes, people too poor to take advantage of the stock market, massive corruption in the stock market and those in positions of influence making millions, bad health, housing shortage, pedophiles and traffickers being supported and funded with govt money. There's more but I don't have time.

I think you have your answer right here @Lyannaa.

A barrage of fact-free right wing talking points outweighs everything else for a lot of voters.

@Usinlimbo

Just to take on one point, there is a lot of information out there (some by the oil and gas industry) about how much control presidents do and don't have over gas prices.

https://www.wkyc.com/article/news/verify/president-does-not-control-gas-prices-in-the-united-states-verify/95-a09cc41d-f244-43d1-9481-a9f738908f2e

And could you please give me a specific example of 'corruption in the stock market and those in positions of influence making millions' under Biden that was due to his administration?

@RingoJuice

I understand the civil war very well (I'm American). Do you not believe there's a difference between teaching history and statues, which venerate? I'd think some Americans, particularly those descended from slaves, would find the veneration of Robert E Lee in their town squares, etc. quite distressing.

Really? Donald’s 49.9% to Kamala’s 48.3% (source: BBC news) is a “landslide”?

This

I understand the civil war very well (I'm American). Do you not believe there's a difference between teaching history and statues, which venerate? I'd think some Americans, particularly those descended from slaves, would find the veneration of Robert E Lee in their town squares, etc. quite distressing

Some of our founding fathers owned slaves. Are we gonna start tearing down their statues too?

I don’t think leftists will ever stop trying to deconstruct our country and destroying our heroes. I won’t play their silly little games. Today it’s Robert E Lee, tomorrow it’s gonna be George Washington.

Paedophile traffickers are shitty people…true.

no they weren’t. There was a big debate over whether the southern states had the right to secede a voluntary union since the Constitution never addressed the matter.

Ultimately the question was decided on the battlefield. But they could never have tried them for treason—the Supreme Court could well have decided they had the right to leave.

The founding fathers certainly have a very complicated legacy when it comes to that (my husband is actually descended from one) and I would hope that's taught in all its fullness in schools.

They are however, different, from a general whose main legacy is literally that fought for the right to keep black people enslaved. His efforts at reuniting the country after the war bring some complexity to the discussion around him and should also be taught.

I do find statues honouring him problematic. I guess you see that as a 'silly game' by a 'leftist'. i.e. someone who can empathise with those who feel racism is gross.