Rise of fascism... what, if anything, can decent people do?

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

Trump's victory is obviously alarming for many of us, but we've seen the rise of the far right in lots of places across Europe to a greater or lesser extent as well. History teaches us that bad things happen when decent people stand by and do nothing . So what, if anything, should those of us who are concerned about the rise of fascism be doing now?

Please note: if you're a Trump fan and don't agree that he is a fascist, this is not the thread to debate that. There are plenty of other threads where we can discuss that point, but this one is aimed at those who already accept that premise. Obviously, I can't stop you posting here, as it's an open forum and I don't get to police it, but I won't be engaging with any posts from Trump apologists on this thread because I don't want irrelevant debate to derail the main discussion.

So you're suggesting she solicit a solution to fascism from people she may well consider to be fascists? That makes zero sense.
Please show me any harm that has been done to anybody. Do you think a few offended strangers on the internet constitutes demonstrable harm?
If so, you need to dial your emotions waaaaay back. Nobody has been victimized. That's insane.

She never said she didn't understand fascism. She just refused to define it for others, assuming, I suppose, that anybody responding to the thread should know what it is, otherwise why would they bother responding.
That's treating people as reasonably educated adults who understand what the word means.
But of course that's not good enough for people. She has to walk them through it like they're children.

I have a few ideas:
There's a book called the spirit level written by two epidemiologists which looks at how economic inequality negatively affects almost every health and social outcome. I think anything we can do to reduce inequality is likely to help. I really recommend the book
Community action - getting involved in community groups and building common ground with people who have slightly differing views, very gently calling things out.
Voting!
Emailing your MP

I think it's also time for a reframing of left wing and liberal stories.

100% to all of this. Much of the behavior in this thread is both irrational and hypocritical.

The Spirit Level sounds fascinating. Thanks for posting about that.

That's great. You'll still have the problem that the pressures aren't resolved and the you'll see political shift.

I agree that the far left is just as dangerous- the attack on freedom of speech and by implication freedom of thought/freedom of expression& freedom of choice of education in the widest sense. It’s just as bad and Labour need to be mindful.

Thanks for reminding me about The Spirit Level.

I saw it recommended when it first came out: clearly I should get as far as actually reading it!

One of the components of fascism is the suppression or silencing of opposing views.

I agree that there is a worrying rise in fascism and intolerance but it is largely coming from the left as this thread so clearly illustrates.

One of the components of fascism is the suppression or silencing of opposing views.

Like banning certain books in US schools ?

Except absolutely noone has been silenced nor have any comments been suppressed on this thread. Hence the irony of these claims of oppression being in full view to everyone, at the risk now of actually dominating / derailing the intended discussion. You are not a victim of oppression just because your commentary doesn't get the reaction you hoped for in others, or because they disagree with you or choose not engage with you.

I didn't know whether anyone would be interested in what I had to say on his thread. If noone had quoted me or engaged me, I would have happily moved on, no feeling of oppression involved. I'm not entitled to other people finding what I have to say interesting, true or relevant to their discussion - that's on me to demonstrate to them. If you decide you don't want to reply to this, I will not have been oppressed.

If someone pulls a face at you, and you ignore them, are you oppressing them?

There's such a double standard here.

The "left" has to overlook direct and indirect support for racism, sexism, misinformation, outright lies, loss of human rights, authoritarianism and so forth. To cast any moral judgement on this whatsoever represents a failure to appreciate the legitimate concerns of the right.

But the concern of those on the left, for the loss of human rights, the loss of basic decency and respect for others, the loss of democracy itself - these are elitist, privileged concerns, the very expression of which, is fascism itself? Trying to maintain the focus of discussion upon addressing these concerns, instead of centering and prioritising the concerns of the right, is fascism?

But actually supporting the stripping back of human rights, stalling or reversing the progress of liberty, fairness, justice, equality, democracy etc - no no that's not fascism. Heaven forbid, calling that fascism is something only a fascist would do.

Trump and his supporters can speak their truth - they are honest Americans. But telling the truth about their politics, and it's dark side, and what it can lead to - that's fascism.

So many oppressed victims in this thread. It's heartbreaking the way the OP refuses to respond to their harrassing, insulting posts. Poor darlings.

Yes the only real fascism, is to point out that someone or a group of people is sympathetic to fascism.

Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao - their fascism manifested itself not through the divisive populist rhetoric, dismantling / undermining of democratic processes and erosion of human rights that is currently alarmingly paralleled amongst the emergent far right in Europe and the US, but rather through the oppression of others through speech which accused them of having fascist sympathies.

Note however, that if you accuse someone of fascist sympathies on the grounds that they have already accused someone else of having fascist sympathies, then a special rule applies to prevent an endless spiral wherein everyone is ultimately designated a fascist. In this instance you are NOT a fascist. You are a brave, independent stalwart of truth and freedom.

(That's freedom from criticism, the most important freedom of all).

Kinell. Starting to sound like The Young Ones, this ...

Oh, Cliff
Sometimes it must be difficult not to feel as if
You really are a Cliff
When fascists keep trying to push you over it
Are they the lemmings?
Or are you Cliff?
Or are you, Cliff?

I'll get me coat.

It is very, very tiresome to those that believe immigration needs to be controlled to be called a fascist I imagine. Trump is a lot of things but he is not a fascist. It is factually untrue, which is why op has been challenged over and over again on this thread.

An echo chamber of any kind is dangerous to democracy - assuming you still want to live in one. The view of some parts of the left that they will only accept democracy if it fits in with their very narrow, limited narrative is the most worrying development in our current political times..

Fascism is defined in a completely different way these days, and to try and attach a traditional meaning to it is somewhat misguided and disingenuous even if it did apply to Donald Trump, which it doesn’t.

Hyperbolic threads about ‘cures’ and ‘solutions’ to the rise of a fascism that doesn’t yet exist is an extreme reaction to the American election result, and then refusing to engage with anyone with a different view underscores precisely the issue we have right now. A refusal to engage. Leading to culture wars, division and an absence of empathy.

What happened in Amsterdam against Israeli football fans last night is pretty worrying. My feeling is that Britain for all its faults will never go far right, it’s not in our culture or history. Bit of moaning yes, but the proper far right and controlled thinking, I do actually believe we are quite immune to that risk. Muddling along incompetently -yes. Fascism - no. You need to be fully organised and slave to the symbolic to become a fascist country.

@Araminta1003

Yep that looks like a pretty clear case of left wing fascists:

amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/11/07/europe/israel-soccer-fans-attacked-amsterdam-intl-hnk

But it's not Trump's views on immigration or Ukraine that mark him out as a proto-fascist, but his:

• Refusal to publicly accept he lost the last election
• Tacit support of the January 6th insurrection
• Planned campaign of vengeance against political opponents
• Affiliation with Project 2025, which aims to dismantle many of the checks and balances of the state (Inc taking control of the judiciary) and to radically increase the executive power of the President

You're right - the potential rise of facism is a more accurate description. But proto-authoritarians don't announce to the electorate their plans to bring an end to meaningful democracy. See Viktor Orban to learn more about this. The Hungarians supporting him for his second term could have said many of the same things you are saying about Trump now.

This is a horrifying antisemitic attack but fascism is more than merely "all examples of political violence". It relates to a broader agenda of autocratic nationalism which is absent in this case. You can quite easily read about fascism online, if you want to better understand what it is? The OP hasn't created this thread to define fascism for you.

@Ghouella

"This is a horrifying antisemitic attack but fascism is more than merely "all examples of political violence". It relates to a broader agenda of autocratic nationalism which is absent in this case. You can quite easily read about fascism online, if you want to better understand what it is? The OP hasn't created this thread to define fascism for you."

Well I would definitely define street violence and attacking people for having a different religion as fascist behaviour.

But in any event given that OP refused to define fascism other than if you are worried about it then you will know what it is, then I am perfectly entitled certainly define the above behaviour as left wing fascists.

This is absolutely sickening. Violence is always wrong. I heard that the Israel fans were chanting about destroying all Arabs and that "there are no schools in Gaza because all the children are dead". No one deserves to be beaten but there's no denying that these chants are highly inflammatory.

Where did you hear or see that?

There are videos of them chanting all over X. Awful behaviour on both sides, I just wanted to give some further context.