Rise of fascism... what, if anything, can decent people do?

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

Trump's victory is obviously alarming for many of us, but we've seen the rise of the far right in lots of places across Europe to a greater or lesser extent as well. History teaches us that bad things happen when decent people stand by and do nothing . So what, if anything, should those of us who are concerned about the rise of fascism be doing now?

Please note: if you're a Trump fan and don't agree that he is a fascist, this is not the thread to debate that. There are plenty of other threads where we can discuss that point, but this one is aimed at those who already accept that premise. Obviously, I can't stop you posting here, as it's an open forum and I don't get to police it, but I won't be engaging with any posts from Trump apologists on this thread because I don't want irrelevant debate to derail the main discussion.

Reform came second in most seats not the conservatives reform, populism is on the rise it's on our doorstep.

Indeed, and in "media landscape" I include TikTok and all other means of mass-spreading messages.

Joe Biden was an absolutely shit President. He is partly responsible for the shit show that is coming America’s way.

The liberal shutting down of free speech has had its day.

A majority of Western people want reasonable immigration controls put in place that was shown in Trump elections, Brexit, the rise in dodgy populist parties across Europe.

People also have concerns about dubious liberal ideologies that were shoved down people’s throats by left wing politicians.

But above all and what sailed Trump across the line and ultimately was what Biden was judged on and killed off the conservatives is that people want more money in their pocket for the work they are doing.

If the centre ground parties don’t start taking these issues seriously we are going to have dubious populist politicians and parties stepping in the void.

Scandinavia is now distancing itself from erstwhile Scandinavian liberal ideology.... 🤔

Couldn’t agree more and the American election shows this, you can’t just ignore a large amount of people because they still vote, and they might not have popular opinions but you still have to listen to them. The democrats clearly didn’t reach out to a wide demographic. It’s worrying for the rest of the world but it’s not surprising trump won.

Why is asking for a definition derailing?

@Hazelnutwhirl I agree completely with what you’re saying, but I’d go a step further and say that it was/is worse than that. They didn’t just ignore them - they mocked them. That’s why the turn out was so high, people were so enraged, they bothered to show up and have their say. People who usually feel so disenfranchised, wanted to be heard.

But it's not 'decent' to discount the views of a majority of a broad population by dismissing them as fascist or fascist adjacent. It is just trying to shape a narrative and stop people who disagree with you from having a say.

OP - your title tends to suggest that no-one who voted for Trump is a 'decent person' and that they are all supporting fascism. This just isn't true.

I'm disappointed but not surprised by the result. I've been a 'lefty' all my life, but honestly I now feel politically homeless and feeling more sympathetic to the so called 'right' the more conversation is shut down and sweeping generalisations of 'fascism' are shouted by the left.

Though I do sympathise if you're feeling worried! I just think that imagining that everyone who voted for Trump is an Evil Fascist Baddy Who Wants To Destroy the Earth isn't accurate.

I just think that imagining that everyone who voted for Trump is an Evil Fascist Baddy Who Wants To Destroy the Earth isn't accurate.

I agree and I don't imagine that that everyone who voted for Trump is a fascist.

I do think Trump is a fascist.

I also don't think everyone in Trump's 2016 team was a fascist either: they joined him in good faith, just like many decent people voted in good faith.

It's what they saw and heard while serving him, up and close and personal, and shorn of the mediation of his sympathetic press & TV, that changed their minds about him.

Trump meets definition of a fascist, his former chief of staff says
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-prefers-dictator-approach-former-chief-staff-says-2024-10-23/

Trump's victory is obviously alarming for many of us where OP falls down, is that clearly, it wasn’t alarming to the American people. Yet here we have, another left wing voter, telling the American public they’re idiots.

He wouldn’t have got my vote, but I absolutely stand by the American people to vote for who they want. It’s a shame Starmer felt the need to intervene, because that’s royally fucked up diplomatic relations.

What the left can do is get back to focusing on economic equality rather than identity politics.
However, there is no chance the Democratic party will do that. One might think the solution in the US would be a separate party for old school, economically minded leftists rather than the liberals obsessed with being woke (while mostly ignoring economic concerns) who populate the Democratic party, but the would split the vote and let the Republicans win again.
So sadly, there is currently no path for the US to defeat fascism.

‘Decent’ people need to sharpen their critical thinking skills. It works both ways, whether you align yourself left or right. A few pp have mentioned the left’s inability to listen to people’s legitimate concerns regarding hot topics such as immigration and trans ideology. It seems impossible to debate such matters without being branded a racist or a TERF. Way to alienate people!

There also needs to be a more general understanding of the press, its motives and the vested interests of its ownership. I am willing to bet good money that Labour will not see another term due to the smearing and half-baked anti-left sentiment peddled by the RW press that dominates our media. A (normally intelligent, educated) colleague of mine was just today spouting a load of guff about Labour’s plans for inheritance tax and tuition fees, none of which were actually true had she paid attention to the actual facts but the press likes to skew the truth and peddle misinformation which is being sucked up by anyone willing to believe it, zero critical thinking involved.

I think there is too much conflation eg not everyone who voted for Trump will be a fan but voters will do what’s best for them.

@ChanelBoucle goo point re the media

But above all and what sailed Trump across the line and ultimately was what Bidenz was judged on and killed off the conservatives is that people want more money in their pocket for the work they are doing.

yep

i dont think people who vote for Trump are all "idiots" or stupid, and i think this view is often pushed (for a reason) by a lot of media outlets for exactly the response shown here...

i am genuinely upset today though, because I just find it hard to accept that people would vote for more money in their paycheck while knowing that Trump's brand of Republicanism has already led to pregnant women dying, that he openly mocks disabled people, that he has no respect for facts, science, law, etc and that he is an unapologetic sexual predator

I'm not allied with the republican viewpoint most of the time, but i never had this visceral reaction to McCain or even to Bush really! Its beyond politics, i dont understand how anyone votes for this man and then can pretend they have any emapthy or care for others

A (normally intelligent, educated) colleague of mine was just today spouting a load of guff about Labour’s plans for inheritance tax and tuition fees, none of which were actually true had she paid attention to the actual facts

What was she saying?

I don't believe someone worried about the effect that changes to IHT and tuition fees is might have on them is a fascist by the way, so not sure why your friends opnions are even worth a mention here.

100% correct. Historically, far left has been incredibly damaging to people.

The OP displays perfectly what is going wrong with the left by dictating only views aligned with their own are acceptable on the thread, just as the far left do.

Not everyone who is concerned about the rise of fascism is far left, that is the extreme. Politics has become so polarised that people have forgotten what the centre is.

I think the problem is that leftwing parties have started talking the language of progressivism instead of class and tackling people’s actual living conditions. Immigration is an obvious one, high immigration over short periods of time will inevitably result in lags between numbers and infrastructures ability to meet everyones needs. Thats not attacking immigrants thats just a fact. Yet the left will paint that concern as motivated by racism rather than accept that it is obviously going to at the minimum cause short term pressures.

The recent budget will mean higher wages for those at the bottom end but also most likely job losses, public sector is unaffected by this. This isn’t going to be helpful to the majority of working classes. Trans issues, I don’t even have to explain why many feminists dealing with domestic and sexual violence object to sex based rights being eroded. They basically ignore the grubby end of life, poverty in the private sector, the fact that some men are just perverts or violent and so women need protections. etc so they can be “value” driven. They need to touch grass here.

Theres just a complete disconnect from the theoretical and material reality. I’ve seen self declared anti-racists make fundamentally racists comments when minority groups don’t do what they want.

There is a lot of moral license, the left see themselves as fundamentally good so they struggle to see why their actions may be perceived as being really quite awful. i’m a good person who supports trans rights so I support transwomen having access to rape crisis centres and think people who block them are uncaring to minority groups (and probably hate them and want them all to die). Whereas a lot of other people will look at that and think “so a womans been raped and you want her to talk about that in front of someone who is clearly male and possibly share a room with one even though she’s probably suffering from PTSD related to males, seems cruel.

I don’t think it’s the left forcing people to vote a different way. They just don’t like what the left is selling. I despise trump, I’m worried about him damaging institutions, but if people look at the left and think they are actually worse than trump or that their lives will be worse then yeah theres a problem. You can either decry the people who didn’t do what you wanted as being awful moral vacuums or you can think about what you are offering and have a good hard think about why so many people aren’t buying.

I’m worried about the impact of IHT on farming and the impact of VAT on private schools for SEN kids. I am definitely not a facist.

Grassroots collective resistance. When they march, confront them, when they attack members of your community, defend them.

Be alert to how they're operating.
https://news.sky.com/video/sky-news-reveals-online-network-behind-far-right-riots-13234480?origin=serp_auto