Rise of fascism... what, if anything, can decent people do?

[MrsBennetsPoorNerves]

Trump's victory is obviously alarming for many of us, but we've seen the rise of the far right in lots of places across Europe to a greater or lesser extent as well. History teaches us that bad things happen when decent people stand by and do nothing . So what, if anything, should those of us who are concerned about the rise of fascism be doing now?

Please note: if you're a Trump fan and don't agree that he is a fascist, this is not the thread to debate that. There are plenty of other threads where we can discuss that point, but this one is aimed at those who already accept that premise. Obviously, I can't stop you posting here, as it's an open forum and I don't get to police it, but I won't be engaging with any posts from Trump apologists on this thread because I don't want irrelevant debate to derail the main discussion.

Let me Google that for you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics

OP, this is their tactic. Derail any debate with demands for definition and evidence. People need to wise up and stop feeding them.

I'm mid 20s and increasingly gen-z men are voting populist, and I think we do need to do a lot more educating of young men and incel culture, supporting them into working things out beyond toxic masculinity.

We need to solve inequality and the housing crisis, wage crisis etc so people feel like liberal/left wing politics does something.

There has been a real decline in trade unions, community organising and community spirit since the dawn of neoliberalism especially Maggie thatcher

@Combattingthemoaners fair point but I just can't be bothered with people who aren't fully educated about something holding strong opinions and refusing to allow any dissent or discussion. Sometimes I feel I am a bit pedantic about things but I also hate people throwing around terms without fully understanding them. In 2020, everyone was an epidemiologist and now in 2024, everyone is a political scientist.

I think Trump won because of the cost of living, plain and simple. Money and capitalism are King in the U.S.

In this part of the world, his comments would rule him out. In that part of the world, they were a mere side show to the price of gas and food.

@JSMill if you have a dictionary definition of facism you'd like to share, that might be helpful for the thread? Help people communicate better?

I can quite see why the OP doesn't want the main content of the thread derailed into some sealioning discussion of what the definition ought to be!

(Of course I can't speak for the OP, and I hope she doesn't mind if I suggest this.)

I think a lot of people are worried about the current state of the world and are understandably wanting to discuss it.

Sorry this was a reply to @JSMill but I forgot to press quote.

Teach your kids.
Go to protests about things you believe in
.Support your local library and other organisations that offer knowledge beyond YouTube conspiracy videos.
Donate to nice things.
Buy books from authors actively working against this stuff and leave reviews everywhere you can. Ditto podcasts.
Start a blog or a podcast.
Write a children's book with a deeper meaning.

It’s bizarre the way people use ‘fascist’ to mean ‘far-right’. To me, a fascist is a bully - someone who wishes to control others and dictate how they live their lives. So far as I can see, it’s the liberal-left who are the fascists. Who are these ‘faaaar-right’ monsters I keep being warned about? I’ve never met one. However, I have met lots of liberal and left-wing bullies. They’re the ones who want books banned or re-written, and they’re the ones who are trying to limit what I can say and read and watch.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

How to combat? No idea. It seems to thrive when times are hard , when people would rather someone else to blame. When people want firm rule to help feel secure.

Pretty sure book burning was nazi and book banning is being done in the right wing states

Although I do tend to agree agree that go far enough left and you end up right

This isn't true people voted boris Johnson in meanwhile he said Black people smiled like water melons, we have the same problem in the uk

I think fact checking and accountability would be a start. If people were held to account over what they say we could focus on actual facts.

Like when Trump announced that "they" eat cats and dogs, when of course it was a lie. He should have been held to account on that. Same with Johnson when he came out with his lies.

If there was proper accountability then we could focus on facts and people could vote according to what they actually think.

Well said.

Some decent points made up thread which I would echo. I appreciate OPs determination to frame the terms.

Many people think underlying causes are:

De-industrialisation is a long process, hurting some demographic groups and areas especially = political alienation/anger.

The aging population means welfare state costs lots more so working population pay high tax but feel they get little in return. As above.

We're trying to use democratic structures conceived of 200-300 years ago, they don't work effectively for us now but we haven't come up with new ones yet. So people don't feel represented.

Geo-political shifts away from US/Nato dominance, means complex risks needing higher intelligence/ defence spending and demands which states have to sell to their populace and pay for. Creates anxiety and higher taxes.

Globalisation of labour markets - e.g people in Europe now competing with people in India for remote work..general downward pressure on western wages due to global labour markets. People resent the fact they might not be better off in future, or compared to their parents.

Also the idea that there's a backlash against scientific rationalism and empiricism, which may be linked to secularism in the west..and I personally think is a response to climate change. But also fits other stuff like anti-big pharma/ anti vax.

There are more. I wish I had the answers haha.
I do think it's important to maintain perspective. There are far worse times we could have lived in.

We should enjoy life anyway because history will roll on without us!

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves there’s a book by the historian Timothy Snyder called ‘On Tyranny’ which has some useful points on this subject, taking lessons from history

@Ghouella I completely agree with you. So many people can't find a place in society, they feel lost or can't get jobs, and for some, online right-wing groups become their only outlet/belonging.
Feels like a defensive stance, a way to defend against feeling like shit, (feeling left out or inadequate). I don't know what to individually do about that - I try and be compassionate & to listen when I bump into someone with different views but people spitting venom about small boats and immigrants is a hard listen of course

but we don't necessarily need a revolution, we do need to start believing a world without billionaires

@Echobelly how will you create a world without billionaires?

Historically what happens is revolution
If you can't keep the lower classes sufficiently downtrodden

But not Italy (‘far right government’, according to the holy Guardian) not Holland (Wwilders 🙀) Poland ( Tusk has totally suspended asylum) Germany ( closed the borders, using the Rwanda facility originally arranged by the British) Denmark who swung right some years ago, Sweden desperately rowing for the shore to repair being , well, Swedish , obviously not Hungary 🙀🙀🙀….so that leaves Spain , Portugal and some Baltic States. Who knows about France, they don’t really seem to have a government at the moment, or at least not a properly elected one. Oh, and Luxembourg, bien entendu, a place almost entirely sustained by semi legal tax manipulation.

Yep, let’s align ourselves with them.

You don't think Trump is several degrees more unhinged? He mimicked a sex act on a microphone, called his opponent a b*tch, talked about shooting people - and that was just this week. I think behavior like that would rule out a candidate here because people here care about the bigger picture, the world stage etc. as well as caring about their own pockets.

Too many posts to respond to individually, but there are some very interesting and thought provoking comments. Thank you to all who have contributed constructively. Lots to mull over.

I totally agree with you @Ghouella about tackling the underlying issues, but I've spent many years trying to work towards a more just society, and I guess I'm getting a bit disheartened because things seem to be getting worse not better. That's partly because things have actually got worse for people as a result of austerity, the pandemic and the CoL crisis etc, but also because many of our politicians have actively tried to stoke hate and division as a means of furthering their own political goals.

I guess I'm feeling quite helpless about it all, and just looking for practical suggestions of things that ordinary people can do.

People are sufficiently downtrodden, in that they must sell their labour and pay whatever it costs for food / housing etc, unless you come from a rich family, but they aren't sufficiently downtrodden to revolt.
Most people have roofs over their heads, clean / hot water, food, cars/ travel money.
Revolutions don't happen until enough people are deprived of the real basics (even then, they sometimes don't) for some time. In the west, most people have the real basics, and they also have cheap entertainment / distraction / connection via the internet. Vast majority (understandably) want to concentrate on keeping their lives going rather than doing anything radical. Not going to be any revolutions around here for a while!

Also I do think things like car culture in the US does add to the isolation—people spend so much time alone in their cars and houses, disconnected from their communities (I'm not talking about the big cities but the rest of US). The whole setup and country is built on commodifying and consumption. Less holiday, expensive health care, longer working hours, and limited social safety nets, it's no wonder people feel isolated, frustrated, paranoid and angry.

I agree with PP’s that the left, declaring that anyone on the right is morally corrupt is backfiring. Disadvantaged, angry, young men rarely react well to being told they are ‘wrong’. It’s driving them further right.

What Farage has done well, (and I assume the Trump/Musk set up has also done) is move canvassing away from traditional channels onto social media. My DC (12 & 15) don’t read newspapers. They would never open the front door to a door step canvasser. But they are permanently glued to TikTok.

15yr old DS (who is choosing politics as an A-Level), closely followed the GE. He says Farage was all over TikTok and it engaged him and his friends. Labour & Conservative were conspicuous in their absence so it was very much an echo chamber for Reform.

In order to make a decision on a candidate doing this, voters would have to know about it.

If there is a media landscape so segmented that this stuff can easily be kept off the radar of a huge swathe of voters – or skated over, minimised and the audience reassured before moving onto vital issues like whether someone's suit is brown – then suddenly this behaviour no longer rules out a candidate.