Boris for PM

[Dodie66]

Reports on sky news say that Boris might stand again for PM. How do you feel about that?
i actually liked Boris but he made a lot of mistakes

@TizerorFizz
I am not entirely sure why you are being shouted at, you have already stated you don't and haven't voted for "them".
I agree entirely with what you have said.
I get shouted at quite a lot for my opinions too and like you, I haven't voted Conservative in the last three elections.
Nor have I voted Labour but its not like voting anything else would matter in our area. Its always Labour anyway. My Lib Dem vote is just my little private protest. I think we should have three party politics again.

@Sleepysophie
I’m afraid it’s tribal. If you don’t actively shout (loudly) against something you must be for it. Zahawi was Chancellor for 5 minutes. He’s obviously been a very successful businessman and is undoubtedly talented. It’s clear he’s got this wrong and will go. The idea that everything is the fault of the PM at the time is something new. We have had many issues in this country for decades. The biggest issue facing Parliament is the lack of talent in all parties and the way they are all chosen. It prudences Boris and other people who shouldn’t be there. It’s too political so short term policies are followed.

I live in a very Blue area. Not a Labour politician in sight. So Lib Dem might work but they are not great here!

I don’t really see Labour as something to shout about. Their policies need to attract business and investment whether they appear to be on the side of the angry or not. Whatever it is people want funded it needs to come from taxpayers, mostly high earners and companies.

Zahawi was Chancellor for 5 minutes.

And used that 5 minutes to negotiate his tax penalty, so I'm sure he made the most of of his time in the job.

People did wonder why he took it at the time when it was obvious Boris was a dead man walking, now we know.

Well.

If I was an employer and someone applied for a job but they’d been fired twice in the past for dishonesty…

And I still took a chance and let them have the job, but they were shit at it, and broke loads of rules and committed a crime at work and lied about it and got fired…

Would I hire them back?

No.

Being asked to pay a tax penalty by HMRC in these circumstances is not considered a crime. Why do you think it is @LeCarre?

Employers have no idea if someone is fined for an inaccurate tax return. They would not normally know if an employee had paid a tax penalty. It’s a personal matter. So I think you need to understand a bit more about taxation penalties before you post. A serious breach with deliberate avoidance is another matter.

Being asked to pay a tax penalty by HMRC in these circumstances is not considered a crime.

Not paying your tax can certainly be considered a crime and people have gone to prison for it. It is entirely unclear to lots of people why Chancellor-at-the-time Nadhim Zahawi got let off with a mere fine.

@noblegiraffe
Because there are different levels of misdemeanour. There is tax avoidance and evasion for a start. NZ was not referred for any criminal prosecution because HMRC have the powers to deal with his level
of case. So it’s perfectly clear. In more serious cases there can be 100% plus penalties. That’s a far more issue and can lead to criminal prosecution where there can be imprisonment and a fine. This was a tax penalty. It’s not the same. It’s also the lowest percentage of any penalty and is not deemed to be anywhere near the worst deliberate tax dishonesty. It’s also not that unusual in complex tax affairs. I’ve been reading tax explanations.

It’s clear that use of the word “fine” is the issue here. It immediately makes it look criminal. Newspapers and politicians with their knives out have used this word. Technically it is not correct. But it suited them to wind everyone up. It’s a penalty.

It was however something he should have mentioned to the PMs (Truss and Sunak) who selected him for cabinet office. I actually think, as a businessman who started YouGov, he’s got a better grip on issues than plenty of politicians. We just don’t like rich people any more.

@TizerorFizz Its not about disliking rich people, its about disliking their behaviors.
Yes Zahawi didn't break laws but he tried to use structures that are not available to you or i, to reduce his tax bill.

There are very wealthy people who do not use off shore to avoid tax.

Btw these tax laws are written by the powerful for their advantage, so we get an ISA cap of £20k p.a, meanwhile what they can move off shore is unlimited.

Zahawi tried to avoid approx £4m in tax, on shares worth £27m... had he done so, thats £4m that people on PAYE who do have these structures, would have to pay extra.

Another is billionaire Chris Dawson (The Range), transferring 100s of millions to his wife in Jersey to avoid millions in tax.... he then has the nerve to complain about pot holes on the roads around Plymouth.

@Alexandra2001
He didn’t. Deliberate avoidance is 100% penalty and possible legal action. He was considered to have put in his tax return with errors in it. It wasn’t prepared by him. It was prepared by accountant. He agreed it though. HMRC thought he should have ensured it was accurate. This is not the same as deliberately avoiding tax. You need to read up about the differences.
He paid the tax, was found to owe more, paid that and the penalty.

Governments agree tax policy. All governments down the years set taxation policy. It is what we accept as a country. it’s hardly a conspiracy theory!

@TizerorFizz ..and you need to learn the difference between evasion and the word i used "Avoidance" and "Structures" ....you also need to read the Ministerial Code and the wording used in the 'code "Perception"

Of course NZ didn't try to evade tax, he used avoidance techniques (not open to anyone on PAYE) but as a senior minister he should not of, it beggars belief anyone can defend this but then Tories always will try and do so.

..and that is why Sunak should have sacked him, instead we have yet more dither and delay.

However, i have been amazed at the number of people, mainly sole traders and Tory voters who his behavior has hit home with and the fact he is still in Govt, so if it leads to a certain Labour victory... job done!

If you recall @Alexandra2001 many self employed didn’t get COVID help. They didn’t pay income tax. We do not all pay tax as we should snd millions decide to run their affairs to minimise tax, especially the self employed who don’t apparently have an income, just dividends.

Anyway he’s gone now. Ministerial code . However these tax issues go way back before he was chancellor. He kept them private which was an error.

@TizerorFizz These SE people aren't making policy decisions effecting the country & not all SE run a company.

The error wasn't so much Zahawi's but the Govt's, why was he even appointed in the first place, his tax affairs were reported many months ago.

He’s been in Government for 5 years. I don’t see there’s a great link between his tax affairs and being party Chairman. Chancellor. Yes. However he’s gone for breaching the ministerial code.

He hasn’t understood (or wanted to know) what his tax affairs meant whilst in Government. But they have been ongoing since he became an MP. Having come to this country as Kurd from Iraq, I think that’s he’s done remarkably well. He didn’t speak English when he arrived. He should have declared he was haggling with HMRC but this will mean business people shun politics in ever greater numbers. After the mess that is Brexit, that’s not what we need.

In this time of need to fund government expenditure for all of us, those not paying Income Tax are avoiding it and not paying what they should. Definitely a loophole that needs closing. No one working for one comment to be classed as self employed. No SE person to rely on dividends for “income” snd not pay income tax. There are many dodges ordinary folk think are just fine. None of it is.

@TizerorFizz I just realised he was the one that went to sex party party too, leaving when he found out it was a sex party... happens to me all the time.

Zahawi came from a very prominent & wealthy Iraqi family, with money held in Gib but the way he talks about his early life you'd think he was from illiterate peasant stock, instead he went to 2 well regarded private schools.

I agree with you on Brexit and tax loop holes but he supported Brexit and in Govt was responsible, at least in part, for these very loop holes not being closed.

We both know why he used an off shore vehicle and he lied about it, repeatedly.

Doesn't strike me as a particularly honourable person but as you say he is gone now, lets hope he doesn't do a Braverman and reappear in 6 days time.

I see Rees-Mogg has suggested Johnson could step into Zahawi's shoes as Chair of the Tory Party (which would presumably entail giving him a without portfolio job so he could attend Cabinet). The Mogg thinks the buffoon has the charisma, etc., to do the job but thinks he might not be offered it right now. Of course, it might be risky given the 'lying' investigation now under way. That could turn out badly. Giving Johnson any kind of role would be a disaster for the country in my opinion.

TBF they are a bit short of people who haven't broken the rules or are currently under investigation.

Why bj is even being discussed as a credible anything is beyond me. I wouldn't employ him to change a light bulb. Primarily he wouldn't know how to do it, would get someone else to do it for him, and then charge them for the pleasure of doing him a favour...not to mention shag their wife, get them up the duff, lie about it and claim he didnt know it wasn't the done thing.

If I hear him speaking he says alot of words throws in a bit of Greek mythology and a few big words to make it look like he has some intelligence... but ultimately ...says nonothingA walking vacuum of nothingness.

But the Moggy isn’t speaking for everyone. There are definitely some Tories who think BJ is the greatest showman and wins votes, but others are disgusted by him. Obviously not very bright people are persuaded by him and vote Tory because of him. Plenty of decent Conservatives think BJ brings politics, them and everything he touches into disrepute. They would be mad to do this - and BJ won’t. He needs the money from his lectures!

Exactly he's shilling his wares to the highest bidder not looking for an impossible job. Power is flowing to Starmer now he was at Davos not Sunak drinking from the lizard cup !

Because Sunak decided not to go. Hopefully more important things to get on with!!

Also, it’s inconceivable Labour won’t have skeletons in their cupboard. Everyone does and journalists will be on to any misdemeanour! The expenses scandal wasn’t limited to Conservatives for example.

@Poppygoestheweasel has it right. I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him, and that's not saying much. I doubt I could even lift him.

I agree noblegiraffe. The Tories have had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find acceptable Ministers. It was bad enough when Truss formed her government. Sunak has been left with the scrapings. One only has to watch junior Ministers making fools of themselves in TV interviews. God help us if Johnson is re-elected to anything.

I can't see him getting back in, surely. But I struggle to vote Labour when they aren't sure what a woman is and seem to have no policy for the illegal immigrants except maybe be kind unlike nasty Tories. But that doesn't solve a thing. Also when there are so many groups demanding higher pay - that's a huge bill for the tax paying public to cover if they bow down to the strikers?

Whats the alternative?

Without Teachers and Healthcare staff, these sectors fail or continue to fail, too many well paid alternatives for degree educated people in this country and beyond.

What is the Tories policy toward migrants? is it working, deterring more crossing or not?

Another serial rapist within the Police force, this time Dorset police... whatever the Tories say about women it is not protecting us... at all.... & thanks to their cuts, 50% of women seeking a place in Domestic violence refuge are turned away.

All this after 13 years, 15 by the time of the next GE.