The country surely has to be ready for Labour now??

[83DanishMum]

Education Secretary Kemi Badenoch!
Home Secretary Suella Braverman!
Levelling Up Secretary...Jacob Rees-Mogg!!!!!! 😂🤣😭😭😭

Populist Prime Minister Truss has apparently already appointed her joke of a cabinet. Never did I think there could be a Home Secretary worse than Priti Patel!

Barely any mention of the climate throughout this whole diabolical leadership scrap, other than the fact that Liz doesn't like the look of solar panels. 🤦‍♀️FML.

What have the Tories actually achieved during their tenure? Except Brexit which has made things worse. Anyone??

I don't find Keir Starmer inspirational but he's clearly decent, credible, honest and competent. He understands we need a green economy, investment and jobs asap. He doesn't pick a fight with our European allies. A coalition led by him including Lib Dems and Greens would also be fine by me. Some adults in the room at last, please!!

Contrary to Daily Fail scare mongering the polls suggest he wouldn't need any deal with the SNP.

Surely the country is ready for a Labour led government at last???

@donquixotedelamancha for example

labour.org.uk/page/green-recovery-report/

I'm not going to quote/copy your last reply to me because it's large, but can you genuinely not see the issue in your response?

no worries @pastabest but then you are making generalisations and not unpacking them.

Kier Starmer has not described voters as transphobic or told people what to think. I think you're conflating Corbynism / Owen Jones journalism with the current PLP, as a justification for voting Tory.

Again this refers to the last administration and not Starmer's. It's old.

Why do you believe that they aren’t listening? Have you any evidence for this or is it just what you imagine to be true?

Given the windfall tax and cost of living payments your claim doesn’t seem believable.

@HappyNumberEight

The windfall tax was a policy they literally stole from Labour after months of refusal to do it!! 😭

And the cost of living payments aren't even going to touch the sides according to Martin Lewis. They are pitiful.

Thanks.

It's good to see some policy work being done in a general sense (I never doubted that was happening) but it still doesn't contain any actual policies; rather vague possibilities and lots of criticism of the government.

For example Corbyn's first manifesto contained details policies which were fully costed- that's part of why he did surprisingly well against May.

Obviously they aren't going to release a full manifesto yet but I don't see any evidence they could.

No one is going to get everything they want. The tories have been far worse for women, families, hell even men for that matter than anyone else is going to be.
I am afraid if you are serious about getting them out then it’s likely, depending on where you live, that you’ll need for vote for one of those two.
As an aside, the hard right has been the one driving the wedge on trans issues. They know the left will tie itself up in knots, and they know that they can get people pissed off enough about it that they’ll stay home on Election Day. There are serious conversations to be had about the issue, but for FFS don’t do it in the framework that the Tories (or republicans if you’re from the US, PiS if you’re Polish, Fidesz if you’re Hungarian, Bolsonaro if you’re Brazillian, I could go on) have created around it.

Yes, speaking sense ^

🤣🤣 So true!!! FFS

Kier Starmer has not described voters as transphobic or told people what to think. I think you're conflating Corbynism / Owen Jones journalism with the current PLP, as a justification for voting Tory.

Keir Starmer is not the whole party and other party members are on record as saying those sort of things long after Corbyn departed. Has Starmer taken a hard line on his MPs calling former Labour voters names? His efforts are quite clearly concentrated on trying to keep the party together and keeping both sides happy rather than providing a decent opposition to the Tories.

It also started long before Corbyn, I actually thought Brown was pretty good but there's no denying that his 'bigoted woman' comment lifted the curtain for many 'red wall' type voters who suddenly saw that the Labour Party might not represent their views anymore. Drip drip drip it all poisoned the Labour well allowing Farage et al to get a foothold.

Labour have done nothing to change that, which is fine if they don't want 'those' type of people to vote for them as you suggested further up. But that ideological position has to come with acceptance that if you tell people not to vote for you if they don't agree with you, they won't.

I'm surprised you have decided I'm a Tory voter. I'm categorically not and I thought my various posts would have made that clear.

We are facing a cost of living crisis with energy costs spirally. Could anyone tell me off the top of their head who is the shadow energy minister? Where is he/she?

Jacob Rees-Mogg levelling up? Is it 1st April and I'm in a time warp?

And I quite like Keir. He's sensible and steady. Which is what a prime minister should be. I've had enough of charisma and sound bites.

@pastabest Why do you say you don’t think Labour are ready?

Rent - a - gob Rayner as deputy PM probably.

@donquixotedelamancha

A lighthearted sigh from me.

That doc is pretty bloody detailed!!

Starmer has also been outlining policy in the last couple of weeks in response to events. Eg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-14/uk-labour-proposes-extending-windfall-tax-on-oil-and-gas-firms
And costing up everything.

You keep referencing Corbyn's manifesto which was published during the GE campaign. They are not going to publish their GE manifesto 2 years before the GE are they.?! Especially since Tories steal their policies eg windfall tax.

There's a whole lot of detail available. It just doesn't come with tabloid grabbing headlines such as the Tories are expert at producing (shockwave policies lacking detail or thought) eg Rwanda.

You keep referencing Corbyn's manifesto which was published during the GE campaign. They are not going to publish their GE manifesto 2 years before the GE are they.?! Especially since Tories steal their policies eg windfall tax.

Indeed, I made that point. I know policy work is going on but at a level up from that labour aren't communicating strong, clear policies. If they are keeping their powder dry I think that's gone on too long and makes them look weak.

The windfall tax is a good example. It was the only smart move so Labour should have been massively pushing for it: every PMQ about a windfall tax, every shadow minister willing to do any TV spot and immediately bringing it up, shadow ministers writing to local papers. The Tories were always likely to u-turn but it could have been played as them caving to labour pressure.

If you really think Labour are communicating well, listening to voters and have capable shadow ministers then why aren't they making more progress against such an absolute mess of a government?

Starmer is intelligent and concerned but lacks doorstep credibility in my opinion. Labour have a history of fighting amongst themselves aided by some left wing journalists. I want the Tories out but I despair of the voters once they have been given a few handouts by Truss. And in my constituency Labour are nowhere. The only alternative is Lib Dem (who on past behaviour might well prop up the Tories in coalition whatever they say now) or the Greens who have no hope outside of Brighton. I see the BBC is being pilloried by Tory supporters for satirising Johnson. I thought he was well beyond satire. The worst PM since Eden.

@carefullycourageous
Yeah, no

This is the kind of dumb, faux offhand Twitterish tone that has turned a lot of voters away from the left

at least she is capable of making the Tory front benchers squirm though and attract attention to what she is saying. Even if you don't agree with what she has to say she is very effective and passionate in opposition.

For that reason it always makes the news when she stands in for Starmer.

Sadly Rayner makes makes of the electorate squirm too.

*makes much of

OP - don’t you DARE start whining “that was corbyn, not starmer” when your very own post at 23:10 last night literally says immigration concerns are only relevant “if valid” and also that you DO want “gammon” votes. 🙄

you’re STILL suggesting large swathes of the population are “racist gammons”.

signed, a Jewess.

@pastabest people squirm at AR because she’s such a vile specimen of humanity, not because she’s a fucking prize-winning orator striking fear amongst lesser wordsmiths.

The windfall tax is a good example. It was the only smart move so Labour should have been massively pushing for it: every PMQ about a windfall tax, every shadow minister willing to do any TV spot and immediately bringing it up, shadow ministers writing to local papers. The Tories were always likely to u-turn but it could have been played as them caving to labour pressure.

I watch PMQs every week and he absolutely DID do this! Hence the government caved!

If you really think Labour are communicating well, listening to voters and have capable shadow ministers then why aren't they making more progress against such an absolute mess of a government?

What you seem to be missing is the MASSIVE mountain they have had to climb since Corbyn's defeat. Let's not forget how catastrophic that loss was. No-one thought it would be even a possibility for Labour to be back within one GE. Everyone said they'd be in the wilderness for at least another decade. In fact there's a serious chance they could get in. So it shows how much process Starmer has made, contrary to your point.

I think you've missed my point @BuenoSucia so I'm not going to engage with your rant.

@pastabest people squirm at AR because she’s such a vile specimen of humanity, not because she’s a fucking prize-winning orator striking fear amongst lesser wordsmiths

I don't think calling her vile specimen of humanity is fair. She isn't my cup of tea and guilty of much of the intolerance I have described in my posts above, but she's hardly going round kicking kittens or gun running.

Kier Starmer has not described voters as transphobic or told people what to think.

KS saying that only women have a cervix is 'something that shouldn't be said' was the final straw for me. If that's not telling people what to think on this issue I don't know what is. For me, it's like watching them insist that grass is purple. Bizarre and unsettling.

The right seized an opportunity to divide. However Labour could have easily avoided making themselves look divorced from reality by not making statements that are divorced from reality.

Labour think TWAW, so no.