The liberal media constantly slating Britain.

[askthedust]

I've never felt like this before. But over the past few months its become obvious, at least to my tiny brain, that the mainstream British media is trying to send the British public down a rabbit-hole of self-loathing.

England gave the world The Beatles, The Stones, Kinks; a universal language the world uses to this day. I fear we're sinking down a liberal sinkhole of self-loathing perpetrated by an over-educated liberal middle-class whose only interest is their own wealth. It's our history that makes true British people go out on their shield.

It's our history that makes true British people go out on their shield. There is no reason to be shamed about our history.

Remember when England produced hope and talent? England gave the world: The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Kinks, a universal language the world uses still to this day. I am fearing it's all going down a liberal sinkhole of self-loathing. It's our history that makes all Brits want to go out on their shield, not give-up and wave white flag. Okay, we made mistake. As an Englishman, I truly apologize. But we have to move on and learn. I think we have.

Even I can see now that those that pervade the British media have no interest in Britain. I've always been neutral and I suppose as one gets older and matures into a fully grown adult one becomes more conservative. But the constant slating of Britain, it's colonial history, etc. etc. It's really getting to me now.

I don't think it's embarrassing to be proud of being English without being labelled a racist or fascist. I think it's good to be English (British). I always laughed to myself when I filled-out my USA immigration form on the plane, not being sure if I am from England, or the UK. Who gives a toss? It's all the same thing. As a Union we are strong.

England, Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland. All the political egos at work need to reign-in their self-absorbed personal hatred right now. We all need to join together to form a strong trading-bloc on the international stage.

Where to start.

The universal language is a result of an astonishing cruel empire. It wasn’t a gift. It was a forceful imposition.

You seem to conflate “English” with “British”. Why? Check yourself.

You mentioned “the Beatles, the stones, the kinks” twice. Memory problems?

British colonial history deserves far more than “slating”. Far, far more.

A bit strange to “proud of” of being a certain nationality. You didn’t chose where you were born. Getting born in a particular geographical spot is not an achievement.

Nice essay.

What's your agenda?

Well this is startlingly incoherent, but assuming you're posting in good faith...

The British media (particularly print) is overwhelmingly conservative. Not really sure who you're referring to as the liberal media here.

British colonial history is a stain on the world and should not be celebrated.

What trading bloc are you talking about? The UK is already a 'trading bloc', so I'm not sure who else you mean? Unless you're advocating to join the EU?

Something about going out on a shield?

Did you not see the front pages of newspapers in the run up to the General Election? They are very conservative and often foreign owned by people like Rupert Murdoch who peddle very right wing material is other countries like the US (Fox News)

All of your great English things are from 50 years ago! You might want to update that list with more current examples like Adele.

I think that you've got a cheek "telling off" the leaders in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Surely you'd support people from those countries feeling National pride ?

Fuck that noise, I'm seriously thinking about joining YesCymru

As a liberal, I kind of loathe being governed by a bunch of truly useless populist conservatives who appear to have no plans for anything. Maybe that’s what you mean 🤷‍♀️

The British Empire was responsible for some horrific atrocities. But hey, I’m sure the hundreds of thousands of Kenyans interned and tortured after the Mau Mau uprising found great comfort in the music of the Kinks

It’s possible to acknowledge these atrocities and still feel fortunate to be British (I won’t say “proud” because I didn’t choose to be born here, so it was no achievement on my part). And our mainstream media is not nearly as liberal as you seem to think.

not being sure if I am from England, or the UK. Who gives a toss? It's all the same thing. As a Union we are strong.

You are both ignorant and deluded.

Hmmm, very slightly in the OP’s defence, there are people with mixed English / Scottish / Welsh / NI heritage who do consider themselves “British” rather than identifying with a specific home nation, but saying it doesn’t matter at all is crass because to many people it does.

the mainstream British media is trying to send the British public down a rabbit-hole of self-loathing.

I would ask you to be SPECIFIC about exactly which organisations in what media are producing what reports on which topics, and what language and other techniques they are using to do - exactly what?

But you clearly have your own agenda and think all us mums are too thick to notice. So don't bother because I'm sure you can't anyway.

astonishing cruel empire

Except for most of the other empires.

You don't see a French, Spanish or Portuguese commonwealth.

As for the Belgian activities in Africa best not say.

How can anyone be "over-educated"? Donald, is that you?

This is some weird copy and paste shit, right? Also incoherent.

Are you drunk, OP?

‘British exceptionalism’ still exists - but now sometimes seen in a reversed way - that we are exceptionally bad. I don’t think that’s anymore true than the idea that we were ever exceptionally morally ‘good’. We did start the industrial revolution, have a huge empire, spread our language and have international clout so I can see why 100 odd years ago people felt proud to be British - it was a different time with different ethics.
All countries have violent and oppressive histories. Mankind is a violent animal. We do seem peculiar in this country in that we are expected to feel personal guilt for the action of our forefathers (or more likely someone else’s forefathers, let’s not forget the ruling class was tiny). But we don’t seem to expect other countries to feel guilty about the their past actions, we wouldn’t dream of trying to make a Belgian teenager feel personally guilty about the Congo. We never discuss the failings of other countries in comparison to our own - when I chat to friends from France and Spain we basically all have the same issues in our countries.
Our country isn’t exceptionally bad - it’s pretty good for many people! There are problems of course - but so there are in all countries. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t strive for better, but the “this country is awful” attitude is very silly when considered on a global scale.
I think it’s this divide between people thinking we are so awful or so amazing that’s driven Brexit etc. Ridiculous populism from both ends.
We are just a fairly normal Western European nation.

What does "going out on a shield" mean? is it a reference to Agincourt or something?

The so called 'liberal' media is overwhelmingly right wing, actually.

"As a union we are strong" - er, what? it's only a matter of time before N. Ireland secedes (and good luck to them I say) and Scotland gains independence so they can rejoin the EU lucky bastards. Strong union my arse.

"This constant slating of England and its colonial history is really getting to me". Good. It ought to. It's about time the English White Elite was forced to acknowledge its brutal history of land grab, suppression and enforcement.

If the best you can muster is the Beatles, Stones and Kinks then you aren't very clued up. The Clash were better.

Why have you written English white elite with capital letters?

Liberal?
I think you mean conservative?

Erm the British media is pretty conservative (because they offer better financial circumstances for the newspaper owners imo).

You've got England and Britain confused a lot so I'm not sure which one you mean.

We didn't give the world a universal language, we forced it in them via colonialism. I'm fairly sure aboriginal people, Maoris etc etc were already happy with the languages they were speaking.

It's right that the media is critical of us as a country, while it's not always comfortable, it stops us going down the route of a state owned media which operates as a government mouthpiece. I think it's very beneficial, particularly in this era of social media algorithms essentially creating echo chambers and tribal politics, to read opinions and viewpoints that go against your viewpoint. As a left wing, feminist, remainer I can't just read the guardian all day or I'll lose the ability to think critically and change my opinion based on new information.

I do think there's something a bit infuriating about the English two world wars, one World Cup attitude. I remember all of the fuss when a Japenese Emperor couldn't apologise for Japanese atrocities during the war because there wasn't a word for sorry in Japanese - there's definitely a subset of people who believe that Germany and Japan should forever hang their heads in shame but have no idea that we had brutal concentration camps in Kenya that we've (to the best of my knowledge) never apologised for. I believe education is the key but many people baulk (sp?) at teaching our colonial past.

The kinks are great though.

• I used we because I'm both English and British so it works. I know not all of Mumsnet is!

As a liberal, I kind of loathe being governed by a bunch of truly useless populist conservatives who appear to have no plans for anything. Maybe that’s what you mean

Well said @CrypticQueen

It makes me cringe when Johnson and people like him make apparently stirring speeches about how Winston Churchill was one of ours and therefore we never need to rethink anything or be kind or clever or contagious as a nation ever again because WE GAVE THE GERMANS A THRASHING! Similarly the OPs talk about The Beatles at al sounds a bit desperate.

There are lots of great things about Britain and the British and lots of not such good things. We are no better than any other nation though and I would argue that our world view these last few years feels a bit stagnant.

I can see what OP is saying.

Colonialism isnt the whole story of British history and its ridiculous to act like Britain is unique, or uniquely evil because of it.

Certain British people, and a lot of British culture, has a toxic relationship with history. All this constant obsessing over the two world wars, to the exclusion of all else, has reached a sort of delusional intensity.

I guess when you find yourself on the side of the goodies twice, you kind of want to make the most of it I suppose.

@PaddyF0dder

Certain British people, and a lot of British culture, has a toxic relationship with history. All this constant obsessing over the two world wars, to the exclusion of all else, has reached a sort of delusional intensity.

I guess when you find yourself on the side of the goodies twice, you kind of want to make the most of it I suppose.

Were we the goodies in WW1? My understanding was we waded into a conflict that was none of our business and sacrificed the lives of hundreds of thousands of working class British men in an attempt to preserve our standing on the world stage and then contributed to a treats which placed a disproportionate amount of the blame at Germany's feet, condemned millions of German citizens to starvation and helped create the climate that allowed Hitler's rise to power? It's a genuine question btw I'm happy to be corrected - just I always felt the general opinion was we won but the war in general was a case of incompetent leaders from all sides sending low income boys off to die as part of their game. I mean a lot of the kings/Emperors of the opposing countries were cousins.

I think WW2 could have started the same. I know some people who believe we got into WW2 because of the Holocaust not because of the invasion of Poland. Churchill didn't care about the death camps and in fact they were useful to him because the soldiers employed there weren't fighting on the front line. However I often look back at WW1 in particular and think it wouldn't be allowed to happen now, we have to at least pretend there's a moral justification when we bomb civilians these days.