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Politics

Please can someone explain? Will we pay if we leave EU without a deal?

580 replies

HappydaysArehere · 17/10/2017 19:53

With all this talk of billions of pounds which we are supposed to owe if we leave and talk of continuing to pay after we leave, I am in the dark. If we walk away with no deal will we pay anything like the amounts talked about? If we are able to do that surely the EU will be big losers as well as us! I am at a loss. Grateful for your input as I am bewildered. I voted to remain but must say the shenanigans being played by the EU are showing them as more like the Mafia than a democratic institution.

OP posts:
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TwattyCatty · 24/10/2017 11:36

On the flipside you appear to have no idea of the contribution to the liberation of Europe from the UK

You don't appear to know the contribution of the UK for starting WW1, and the fuck all they did to end it. Liberators of Europe my fucking arse!

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 11:41

You don't appear to know the contribution of the UK for starting WW1, and the fuck all they did to end it. Liberators of Europe my fucking arse!

Why are you so sweary?

Yeah, the commonwealth lost millions of men, "fuck" all to do with ending it?

Did you become a Marxist in University?

Moussemoose · 24/10/2017 11:44

M4Dad

It's like you people don't remember the BoB at all?

What extremely unpleasant thing to say based on no evidence on that topic at all. Hmmmm seems like there is a trend.

Make a sweeping statement about what other people think with a total inability to back that statement up.

The BoB was an extremely important element, however, compared to an event like Stalingrad contextually it is not as influential on a European scale.

In terms of the UK the BoB was an outstanding contribution that probably saved the UK from Operation Sea lion.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 11:47

in terms of the UK the BoB was an outstanding contribution that probably saved the UK from Operation Sea lion

Yeah, that's what I said

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 11:51

We now live in an alternative reality where in a divorce shared assets are not considered part of the settlement and the UK contributed nothing to the liberation and peace of Europe, twice.

Happy days.

Moussemoose · 24/10/2017 11:51

M4Dad

Your point was that people like me "don't remember the BoB at all"

You often confuse what you said with the point you are trying to make.

CauliflowerSqueeze · 24/10/2017 11:52

Don’t mention the war!

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 11:58

To just recap my contribution to the thread.

I mentioned that we should be entilted to a share of the EU's assets.
I was told that for some reason we shouldn't be and that the EEC magically made the UK into an economic success (why didn't it do that for everyone)
Then I reminded people of the great contribution this country and the commonwealth have already given Europe
Then I was shouted and sworn at..

Itwillbefine1 · 24/10/2017 12:00

Cauliflower - Remember that episode of Fawlty Towers. You're making me smile.

TwattyCatty · 24/10/2017 12:02

Why are you so sweary?

Cos I like it. Why are you so wrong?

CauliflowerSqueeze · 24/10/2017 12:03
Wink
Pansiesandredrosesandmarigolds · 24/10/2017 12:05

Who will trust us if we don’t?

Moussemoose · 24/10/2017 12:06

TwattyCatty

You are offending the man with your foul language, desist woman!

13 years in the RAF and a little "fuck" upsets him. What are the armed forces coming to?

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 12:08

I'm not offended, I just thought it was unnecessary. Which it is.

artisancraftbeer · 24/10/2017 12:10

We have our share of the EU assets, like roads in Cornwall and Wales.

We have to pay a share of the things we'd agreed to pay for, unless we walk away and leave poor Mr Farage without a pension.

I don't remember the battle of britain as it happens. I'm not in my eighties... but I'm surprised anyone outside a John Buchan novel really thinks WW1 was a positive contribution to the peace and liberation of Europe.

TwattyCatty · 24/10/2017 12:11

Oh good!

I find it entirely necessary, thanks. Smile

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 12:11

Who will trust us if we don’t

I think the world is well aware that Juncker and people of his ilk have to make an example of us to ensure that no other upstart country get's any uppity ideas of their own and plan to leave the EU.

Which is interesting given the recent elections in Austria and the Czech Republic.

Itwillbefine1 · 24/10/2017 12:13

OP has asked a good question -
Will we pay if we leave EU without a deal?

I think so -

I think the payment is a bit of a red herring. It grabs headlines like the side of a bus logo, but in the scheme of things is not the biggest issue. What is at stake here is future trade and Britain is leaving the biggest trading block in the world.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 12:17

We have our share of the EU assets, like roads in Cornwall and Wales

I don't get this logic so many people have - we actually paid for those roads, you do realise this don't you?

It was OUR money, we give it to the EU, the EU take a large cut to share around places like Romania and Poland and then they give a smaller portion of it back in things like "roads"

TwattyCatty · 24/10/2017 12:18

You don't actually understand how the EU works, it appears.

Bet you actually think the NHS will be getting 350 mill a week soon, don't you? Bless. The naivety is cute.

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 12:20

You don't actually understand how the EU works, it appears

Oh, that old chestnut?

M4Dad · 24/10/2017 12:35

For any interested parties:

Very simply put.

In 2016 the UK paid £13.1 Billion to the EU for our Membership Fee (After our Rebate of £4 billion)

In 2016 the EU spent £4.5 Billion on the UK (mainly on farms)

Therefore we contributed around £8 billion pounds.

Anyone who doesn't think we paid for our own "roads" is being willfully silly or perhaps just misled by Remain propaganda

OliviaD68 · 24/10/2017 13:05

And let's see. What will the damage be to the UK economy by being the only country on the planet to trade with all countries on WTO terms ...? Do enlighten us.

For those worried, we always have the IMF to bail us out. We may need capital controls - remember those? And there's always the Paris and London clubs for external debt renegotiations. I recall something about 'Extended Toronto terms' given to LDCs in particularly dire situations ...

Right, go on. Tell us how everything is gonna be just fine

hiddenmnetter · 24/10/2017 13:21

The Soviets won the war in the sense that it was their entry into the war on the allied side (not that of Britain or the US, whatever English-language movies might want us to believe) that was the most decisive factor in the outcome of the war. The idea that we could have won without them is laughable. The Americans didn’t even have enough troops in Asia at the end of the war to occupy the territory that the Japanese had held. The Russians getting to Korea first stored up trouble that we’re still dealing with now.
We weren’t white knights swooping in and saving Europe. We signed away Czechoslovakian land to the Germans and allowed them to keep it despite it not being ours to give away. Telling a Czech that we bailed them out during World War Two is unbelievably offensive.

Strongly disagree-

The US operations in Asia were winding up post-Hiroshima and post-Nagasaki. The Japanese had surrendered unconditionally following the virtually total destruction of two of their cities in 2 single bombing runs.

This lead to the unleashing of the US war machine on the western front. This is the single greatest factor in the west's favour in WW2.

The soviets were helpless in front of the German onslaught. The Germans came within a hair's breadth of seizing Moscow and the Russian oil fields. It was the Russian winter that slowed and eventually halted their advance, not the Russian war machine. Routinely Russian soldiers were sent to the front line without weapons. The implication was that by carrying ammunition only they could retrieve weapons from fallen soldiers. The Russian army was decimated by stalin's purges before ww2 began.

The US on the other hand started with a standing army of ~80,000, and around 120 aircraft. By the end of WW2 their standing army was in the region of 10,000,000, and their Air Force was in the region of 120,000 aircraft, with the manufacturing capacity to produce thousands of planes per day. US industry was unmatched by any other great power in WW2.

Well before Hiroshima and Nagasaki the US were winning the war in the Pacific. They were fire-storming Tokyo daily and were advancing rapidly. This is part of the reason that people today debate about the necessity of the atomic bombs- the argument being that the US were poised for Victory anyway, so that they were unnecessary horrors.

Once the US forces were set against the western front fire storming of Berlin began, and the invasion of Normandy was planned. In response the Germans had to move massive resources to the western front to counter this. This lead to the opportunity for the Russians to begin to push back.

The fact that the Russians beat the US to berlin is the result of a concerted effort to do so. Their efforts to push back are belied by the fact that despite the German advance halting in 1941, they only managed to put the German army into a retreat in September of 1944, some 3 months after the allied landing at Normandy.

The British were the most significant resistance to German aggression in the west given that Spain was neutral and the French fell right at the beginning to the German blitzkrieg. It was however the US presence in the west that turned the tide of the war. US military might was eventually matched in ground troops by other countries, but in terms of naval and air power, the US was (and still is today, really) un-matched in its capacity to control the zones of war through unparalleled air and sea power.

hiddenmnetter · 24/10/2017 13:22
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