Please can someone explain? Will we pay if we leave EU without a deal?

[HappydaysArehere]

With all this talk of billions of pounds which we are supposed to owe if we leave and talk of continuing to pay after we leave, I am in the dark. If we walk away with no deal will we pay anything like the amounts talked about? If we are able to do that surely the EU will be big losers as well as us! I am at a loss. Grateful for your input as I am bewildered. I voted to remain but must say the shenanigans being played by the EU are showing them as more like the Mafia than a democratic institution.

...or in this case, a lobotomy...

@CardinalSin and all. I thought I’d bring some levity into the thread with a David Davis special. Now I know this was early on ... But still?

Somehow you have to wonder: why would it be that Germany France Poland and Italy could negotiate their own trade deals directly but the UK could not.

I wonder when the penny dropped.

I wonder if it has dropped yet. He doesn't seem to be entirely aware of what he's supposed to be doing...

@CardinalSin

What makes you say that? Let’s see. Could it be:

• that NI can have a soft border with the UK outside the CU

• that bankers can have status akin to diplomats?

• that an FTA with the EU affords SM/CU equivalence?

• that anything but a framework was ever intended to be agreed before March 2019?

• that the EU cannot negotiate with a member state thus that trade or other negotiations can only ever take place AFTER we’ve left?

• that the next phase of discussions are NOT about a trade agreement but the overall framework for departure?

• that leaving the SM/CU necessarily means the best we can hope for is a Canada style DCFTA that will take ten years?

• that we MUST fall under ECJ jurisdiction during any post A50 transition period?

Can’t be that. Must be something else.

So come March 2019, your deluded lot are still going to be pointing out THINGS, call me names I really don't care, your efforts to Educate me to your point of view, nah... so what. Recall your Article 50. that NEVER happened, and still you will moan and complain and shout the odds about how stupid you feel we were to vote out.

Just what will the slap in the face that wakes you up to what is happening... shakes head at you numpties.

Nothing like the slap in the face the rampant Brexiteers will feel when they see their world falling apart...

Mummy, you won but you sound like a sore loser. The forthcoming brexit shitstorm is all yours. Enjoy.

I believe that's called a word salad, mummmy2017

Not a sore loser, very pleased there is not a way your lot can stop this.

It's so easy to say tell me the good in Brexit, as we just don't know, nothing is decided or set, and so long as the EU won't talk about trade, this merry go round about money can't be sorted.
As the EU are all take and no give, a negotiation is just that 2 sides talking. Not one saying more money, more money , more money.

Yes I have read all the comments about this is wrong, that is wrong, but at some point that has to stop and the real work of making all the bit come together in a form that people can live with will need to start, even if it is a bitter pill to swallow , and it WON@T the the UK remaining a member of the EU.

@Jeanvaljean27 and your an ostrich with it's head in the sand.

The British government are paid to make it work, they are failing. Nothing else you say makes sense.

How do you make it work, when the people your talking to won't reach any comprises, and just keep saying pay more.

No mummy, the eu has been quite clear on issues such as eu citizens rights, ni and the settlement bill.

@mummmy2017

You’re all over the place. Word salad is a polite way of saying that.

Is there anything cogent you can contribute?

Blue passports? Bendy bananas? NHS £350m even?

The settlement bill is just a random number even the EU don't know how much they want....

EU rights, have we not made several offers, and been told no we don't like that, if it's the EU way or the highway, think it will end up being the highway, just so we can leave on 3/19 and work from there.

NI offers were made, UK didn't want a border, EU say there has to be one. But they have borders with other Non-EU countries, bet the UK are reading up on the details.

You lot are like a group of old biddies in a room, putting the world to rights, in your heads you have all the answers.

Trouble is no one else sees or hears you, and the world moves on while your all stuck in your room thinking your IT...

Is it possible to have the discussion by mentally editing Mummy out? Surely it reached that point ages back?

@Ohayohay

Is this possible? The thread’s average quality would improve if we could.

I see it’s not just me who is tired of the random gibberish generation.

On another note who thinks our sad excuse for a PM will be defeated in the House in her misguided attempt to insert a hard exit date in the Withdrawal Bill? This is one of the more asinine steps I’ve ever seen; not dead yet.

I like the way we are called “your lot”. Didn’t you do this for our own good? Aren’t you supposed to want good things for everyone? Or are Remainers just some “lot” to be endured?
Nice. We’re in this together? My arse!
At least there’s hysterical forced cheeriness on other threads.

I'll bite (just a little bit). "EU rights, have we not made several offers"

We have, grudgingly, made several offers to treat EU citizens as, maybe, 2nd class citizens (rather than 3rd class), which the EU have, rightly, objected to. I suspect the EU is also looking at what the Maybot's government does, rather than just what it says, and the toxic atmosphere it is making for furriners at the moment probably disgusts them. I don't blame them in the slightest for making sure that their citizens are properly protected.

Olivia, the 'random gibberish generation' has existed for ever and ever. It comprises the vast seething mass of humanity that is the mob. Easily manipulated, prone to catastrophic voting decisions, unable and uninterested in assimilating a volume of data and using it to make an informed choice.

As Churchill pointed out, the strongest argument against democracy was a five minute conversation with the average voter. Well, here's your average voter that he was describing, mummmy2017.

Someone who can barely spell or produce a coherent paragraph is being asked to cast a vote on a complex political, social, economic, legal construct that we've been part of for 40 odd years. In any other technocratic field from medicine to law to fiscal policy it'd be staggering to give her the responsibility to cast a vote to decide how to proceed. Yet here we are.

Little wonder that referenda have been the weapon of choice for absolute dictators like Mussolini, hitler, Franco, Chung-here and Marcos.

On a separate note olivia, she won't succeed in fixing a date because fortunately there are enough tories amongst the 20-odd 'mutineers' who recognise the idiocy of tying both hands behind your back by fixing a cliff edge rather than keeping your options open.

She'd need support from across the house which I doubt she'll receive, particularly considering how loudly Keir Starmer is shouting about not fixing a date. I doubt he'd be peddling that line unless he had at least nominal agreement on it from Corbyn, Milne and McDonald.

Though logic dictates that the technocrats and politicians across the pond will bend over backwards to agree a fudge where there is an endless transition without a cliff-edge brexit, my fear is that this weak and wobbly idiot is being driven in one direction only by her swivel eyed loon backbenchers and fear of the 52% turning on her, and we may accidentally jump off that cliff edge.

@Jeanvaljean27

Agree. Seems she’s backing off anyway.

Even if she did not and got it thru the Lords would kill it.

Do you know something, I am so glad, your little world is here, so you can pat yourselves on the back, about how Superior you are to have voted to not leave the EU.
Stuck in your little world you pretend that, some golden bullet will save you from the reality that was voted for by 17 Million people, it's such a shame your only way out is to pretend to yourself that I must be an idiot, and your oh so much brighter, that me...
At least I won't be shocked in march 2019, when you have to finally have too face that reality.

@mummmy2017

Sorry you feel this way.

You came on here hoping not to be chastised. I indicated that you would not be if you held cogent views.

But it’s been drivel. Just nonsense.

Add to that a lack of willingness or possibly inability to learn anything.

So why not stay off this thread and save us all some irritation?