Second EU referendum. How would you vote?

[JasAnglia94]

Sorry if this has been asked before.

I hear this statement made over and over again - that people would "vote differently if we had a EU referendum today". Would you though?

I was REALLY on the fence re. the referendum. I'm 23 and from a comfortable middle-class background.

In short, I think there is a surplus of people competing for jobs - both at graduate and service level - and that the situation is exasperated by free movement. I also think the problem of housing is made worse by free movement; that there isn't enough housing for people at the middle-lower end of the pay scale and that the number of people in this bracket is ever increasing.

However, I voted to remain last minute (after much persuasion). This was due to economic and environmental reasons. I don't trust the current government with environmental policy and I don't think price rises and fewer jobs (or jobs at lower pay) will help people like me.

Would I vote differently now? No. However, I would definitely be more on the remain side than the leave (e.g. my shopping bill depresses me!).

Was anyone else who was on the fence vote differently now?

I'd still vote out. Even more so now with the behaviour of our so called EU pals.

when I see the unelected Jean-Claude Junker

What do you mean by unelected?
If you mean that he wasn’t elected directly by all EU voters, that’s technically true, but so what? If you are trying to imply that he lacks democratic legitimacy, then that’s ridiculous.
He is President of the European Commission; as such, he was nominated by the European Council and then voted by the European Parliament.. The European Council comprises the heads of governments of the EU countries. The European Parliament, well, is not perfect, but is certainly not unelected.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_European_Commission
He may have not been voted directly by all EU voters, but the democratic legitimacy of his appointment is hard to question.
Cabinet ministers in the UK government are not voted directly, either, yet I don’t see anyone ranting about ‘our unelected ministries’. Care to explain why?

I don’t see lots of lecturing or bad faith by the EU. The EU has been extremely clear since the beginning on what it wants. It’s the UK that is still negotiating with itself on what it wants.

Finally, there is a whole spectrum between backtracking the next day, and changing policy once the facts change or become clearer. Otherwise we should have never had the Brexit referendum in the first place because, you know, we already voted once to join a few decades ago! When does it become permissible to revisit a choice? After 1 year? 2? 5? 10?

Remain again, without a doubt. There are no proper plans in place for Brexit, the negotiations are already going badly, the pound is weak - I see ZERO benefits so far. Not keen on having my rights to study, live and work in 27 other countries taken away from me and from my children. The EU is far from a sinking ship - they seem to be doing rather well.

Remain again. I find the amazement that the eu are bargaining hard against us in their best interests really amusing. They are hardly going to do otherwise. It's their job. They have all the committed member states to think of especially Ireland who are naturally worried about their border. But as always it's easier to slag off the eu than admit our government don't actually have a clue what to do.

The EU will implode after we leave. It might take a few years but it will happen IMHO. It's rotten to the core.

Still remain here. Would add a clause about hoovers though- my new low power one is Shit.

Leave again.

Viviennmary....totally agree with you. France, Greece, Italy are a mess. Germany's economy is really the only one that is viable. I voted remain (vested interest) but now I would vote leave. I would like the UK to have it's own Bill of Human Rights, I would like the UK to make and decide on it's own laws and not be dictated to by the EU MP's that I havn't voted for. I want the money we give to the EU to go towards our own public services. I want "controlled immigration" so that our infrustucture's, schools, health, housing etc serve the people that are already here in a much more enriched way. There is a big wide world out there for trade, why should we be dictated to by an unelected government body.

I would not vote. I've voted on it already. The politicians have had my answer. If they ignore the first vote, what is the point of voting again?

They will have shown that voting is a waste of time and they do what they want anyway.

Brexis is an impending disaster for the UK; we're about to become irrelevant.

Stay as ever.

Still remain.

For the first time EVER EVER after Juncker's display yesterday I found myself thinking - well, maybe we made the right call.

I can't believe I just wrote that.

That said - he won't be around forever.

I guess I'd still vote remain but with less confidence than before.

But I am waivering.

@Viviennemary , I envy your crystal ball :) What exactly do you mean by implode? And how and why would we be better off outside the EU in case of its ‘implosion’ – whatever this means? We were already out of Schengen and the euro. Even if we managed to obtain a cake-and-eat-it type of deal, which we won’t, an EU ‘implosion’ would still affect us big time!

@Pensionista, surely you know that the European Convention on Human Rights was heavily influenced by the UK, and in particular by the English Bill of Rights? May I ask what is so oppressive and anti-British that you would like to change, and why? And no, Theresa May was wrong, no one was ever spared deportation because of his cat. If you feel so strongly about it, surely it’s because there are specific laws you want to change/get rid of. I’d love to learn what these are, and why.
Some EU laws are voted by EU MPs you haven’t voted for. Shock and horror. How is this different from UK laws which are voted not only by your own MP, but also by MPs you haven’t voted for? I’m not really following!

I want the money we give to the EU to go towards our own public services Do you mean you believe the bus thing, which even Farage admitted was wrong? How can you be so sure Brexit won’t end up costing us way, way, waaaay more?

Yes, there is a big world out there to trade, but how long does each trade deal take to agree? What would happen until then? Why would any country prioritise the UK over the much bigger rest of the EU in trade deals? What about the car industry (and other industry) which rely heavily on exporting to the EU?

By implode I suppose I mean fall apart. It just isn't going to work. twenty eight countries (sorry now 27) all agreeing on ever closer union. It's a recipe for total disaster. Germany wants one European state with them in charge. European army and god knows what else. It's become a monstrosity. Nobody signed up to a United Europe or European courts,. . It was meant to be a Trade Agreement.

I would vote remain without hesitation again.

I still believe that Brexit diminishes us in every conceivable way.

So the EU will ‘fall apart’. Still not clear what this means: neverending economic crisis? An actual dismantlement of the whole EU and a return to national states with no free movement, no tariff-free area, etc? Both cases would be extremely disruptive to the UK, regardless of whether we Brexit or not, so, let me ask again: how and why would the UK be better off by being outside when the EU ‘falls apart’?

Still out.

Fall apart, disintegrate, implode. I may be completely wrong. It could go from strength to strength. With other countries all joining in. Even those not in Europe. Like Australia and New Zealand. And they'll all be one big happy club with Britain on the outside looking in at all these lucky folk in that wonderful organisation.

It's a shitty rubbishy organisation full of corruption. And I will open a bottle of champagne on the day we are out for good.

SouthLondonDaddy....European Covention on Human Rights heavily influenced by the UK ? "Influenced" is the operative word, the bill was also "Influenced" by the rest of the EU, Germany being the "Dominant Influence. I never mentioned the word "oppressive or anti British" your words not mine. I merely want an "Elected British Parliment" to decide not Brussels. I also never said that I wanted to change our authentic laws, I accept them even if I don't agree with them because they were made by the "British" Parliament not Brussels. I think that's called democracy.
"Some EU laws are are voted by EU MP's I haven't voted for" that's my point. Of course UK laws are voted for by other MP's I haven't voted for, the difference being this is "Our" democracy" and "Our" system not Brussels . To me Brussels is just a gravy train paid for by British and other Country's contributions, Nigel Farage is loosing his very lucrative EU wage, doesn't it make you think that if he wants us out there's a dam good reason.
" I want the money that goes to the EU to go to our own public services".....No I did not believe the "bus thing"....read my post, I vote to remain.
No I haven't got a crystal ball so I don't know if it will end up costing us more, but logic tells me the EU needs us for their exports, ie Cars, food products, wine, they sell more to us than we do to them, but it's still a lot of money.
America has already told us they will do business with us, also Japan and New zealand, how do you know what's happening behind closed doors at this very moment ?
Seeing the way the alcoholic Junker is behaving towards us, the sooner it's done and dusted the better.
Just heard on the news the pound has reached a one year high. Hope this answers your questions.

@Pensionista, I remember a conversation with a professor of international law, who explained that two British politicians were among the key people who drafted it. I don’t remember the names, but I am sure google can come to the rescue if you are really interested. My point is that it was far from an imposition from abroad; Brits didn’t write all of it, but certainly played a key role.

You are unhappy with European laws. Yet you have blatantly failed to explain with which ones, and why. Let me suggest a few hypotheses:
a) You have no clue whatsoever what these European laws are, whether you’d like to change some and why, etc, yet you just don’t like the idea that Europe has some influence on UK laws.
b) Some European laws really make your blood boil and the sooner we manage to get rid of them, the better. If so, care to explain which and why?
Care to explain which it is? Or if there is a third one?

America has told us they will do business with us. Who, when, how? Do you mean Trump, the president with the attention span of a goldfish, who has managed to contradict himself a gazillion times and has no clear policy whatsoever? Anything slightly more of substance than a few empty declarations by Trump?

Alcoholic Junker? Why are you calling him that? I am hardly a fan of the guy, but how would you react if EU citizens started calling British politicians alcoholic? And, by the way, what has he done that’s so outrageous? His job is to negotiate in the best interest of the EU, not ours. The EU has always been very clear on what it wants – it’s the UK that wants to have its cake and eat it and that still has to come up with a coherent strategy.

The EU sells us more stuff than we sell to them. In absolute terms, yes, but, proportionally to GDP and to total exports, no. That’s quite an important detail!

The pound has reached a one-year high. So now a single data point of a single day is supposed to tell us… what, exactly? The trend of GBP vs EUR since after the referendum paints a very different story, but even that is far from the whole picture. The key point is that no one seems to have a clue on what on Earth is going to happen, and it’s quite pointless to read too much into a single data point until there is some clarity.

Still leave, and still for the same reasons. I think we are being swamped. How many people do we need to let in to wash cars

It's anybody's guess I suppose. Scotland had their chance to leave the UK. They didn't. I can't see a united Ireland ever coming about but I suppose it's possible. But not with their history of troubles. Consults crystal ball. EU will be finished in the next 20 years is what I'm seeing.

How many people do we need to let in to wash cars

To wash cars, maybe not so many, I really don't know.

To work in the NHS and in our universities, quite a lot.

Surely the UK has done everything possible to convey a clear message that EU citizens are still welcome to work in our hospitals and universities, right?