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Trump (Part 7)

999 replies

claig · 21/12/2016 00:37

Even more Trump.

There may be 4 years of this.
Try to keep it lighthearted and not snide, please.
It's Christmas.

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6
Kaija · 02/01/2017 15:31

Truth Claig? No. Repetition.

Kaija · 02/01/2017 15:34

I wonder how one would handle the cognitive dissonance in being against "big brother" and pro Theresa May.

But then again there is the difficulty of being pro freedom of speech and pro Putin. How does that work? So much contradiction.

birdsdestiny · 02/01/2017 15:38

Claig. I know you feel really betrayed by Blair. I am sorry about that. Did you think he was the saviour and then gradually realised he wasn't. Do you think there could be a way of avoiding that happening to you again? Blair was not a saviour, neither is Obama and neither is trump. They are just men. Politicians, some of whom are better than others. I just don't want you to be disappointed again. I don't get wound up by Blair because I didn't think he was going to save the world in the first place. There is no revolution and there are no saviours. I know it would be easier if there were.

DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 15:42

See I never felt let down by Blair, I was anti war, but think that Blair achieved a lot more for normal people.

claig · 02/01/2017 15:44

'He isn't an outsider, he's an inherited millionaire who has used all of the tools of the establishment to keep himself there. He is the establishment'

I know you probably subscribe to the Guardian and the New Statesman as well as anything that Progress puts out and follow the Orifice of Tony Blair on twitter, but unlike that lot, at least do the people who voted for Trump the courtesy of believing they knew what they voted for

'How anti-establishment outsider Donald Trump was elected the 45th president of the United States

Donald Trump was shunned by much of the Republican establishment, but he forged a message of economic grievance and political change that resonated with white voters in rural areas and small towns.

Early Wednesday morning, the political novice who was taken seriously by almost no one when he announced his presidential bid 16 months ago won the White House over Democrat Hillary Clinton, the final stunning turn in a campaign that defied one conventional wisdom after another.

www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/11/09/election-analysis-hillary-clinton-donald-trump/93198882/

'He's also appointed exactly the type of people he claims to be against to the top jobs, people who gave him political contributions, people who have connections to almost all of the organisations you've identified. '

I have already explained that just because someone is an Oxford PPE, that doesn't mean they are "servants of the elites", in a previous thread "esteemed PPEs" were discussed such as Simon Jenkins

'Again common sense and the end of political correctness are just soundbites'

That is what Blair thought and is why he says "I no longer understand what is happening in politics". If you don't want to be like Blair, then stop reading the guff in teh New Statesman written by their Oxbridge graduates who pretend they are anti-Establishment and try and understand what political correctness is really all about. These threads are a good primer.

'The stuff about jobs coming back is just something said to try and get people to vote for him, it won't happen'

That is probably what Blair hopes, but that is what people want, they don't want Guardian "solutions" which are just warmed over, reheated, Establishment dishes

'Will he punish his own companies that operate offshore? '

Absolutely not. There wil only be "consequences" for companies that leave the United States. Exxon has branches everywhere, I presume. He is hardly likely to punish Exxon.

'Because actually they are just meaningless soundbites, they don't actually mean anything. '

So sovereignty and making your own laws and having a parliament accountable to the people which can throw idiots and elites and whizzkids out of office if they make laws that the people don't like "means nothing"? This is why Blair "no longer understands what is happening in politics".

'An awful lot of the rest of that post is just utter rubbish, tin foil hat aliens probed me trite shite. '

I think you must be mixing my post up with one of Kaija's

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claig · 02/01/2017 15:47

'I just don't want you to be disappointed again'

There is no chance of that, don't worry about that, we have Trump in charge. We won.

"2016 has been one of the greatest years ever for humanity"

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/12/2016-one-greatest-years-ever-humanity/

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DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 15:50

I think again that post doesn't explain anything it just repeats things.

First off you start by attacking me and my "position", which demonstrates the flaws in your argument, you don't actually refute that Trump is establishment.

"So sovereignty and making your own laws and having a parliament accountable to the people which can throw idiots and elites and whizzkids out of office if they make laws that the people don't like "means nothing"? This is why Blair "no longer understands what is happening in politics"."

But this is the thing, it seems that people who voted for Brexit didn't actually want Parliament to take decisions, or our courts, it isn't even apparent what they wanted ( apart from immigration cut).

See you just repeat yourself over and over, you offer no real analysis for your reasons.

Trump and Brexit were the ultimate establishment victories, there has been no revolution. The boot stamping on your face will continue to do so, and you will be thanking it for doing so.

claig · 02/01/2017 16:03

'I think again that post doesn't explain anything it just repeats things. '

Of course it repeats things, because I am repeating what I have already explained to you before.

'First off you start by attacking me and my "position"'

No it doesn't. It was an excuse to take the piss out of the Guardian and the Orifice of Tony Blair and that thing they call Progress. Don't take it personally, I assume you don't really follow the Orifice of Tony Blair on twitter. Only the 172 do that, surely, and possibly the Oxbridge graduates at the New Statesman.

'you don't actually refute that Trump is establishment. '

I said he is an outsider which means he is not in Big Brother's Inner Party, he is not Establishment, they don't like him, they wanted him to lose, they were all against him, he only had the Deplorables on his side and the New Statesman can't stand them so de facto they must be anti-establishment.

'But this is the thing, it seems that people who voted for Brexit didn't actually want Parliament to take decisions'

Now you are using Blairisms and Blairite illogic. Teh people weren't asked to vote Yes or No for "Do you actually want Parliament to make decisions" because they would have thought, reasonably, that that was a question about Parliament deciding to vote for their own pay increases or subsidised House of Commons Bars etc, and not even teh elite would have put that question to the people. The people were asked whether they wanted to stay in the EU or not and they said "Not bloody likely".

'it isn't even apparent what they wanted'

Only if you work for the New Statesman. They wanted to leave the EU, they wanted a "red white and blue" Brexit as Theresa has rightly said.

'you offer no real analysis for your reasons'

I think you fail to "understand what the reasoning is", a bit like Blair

'Trump and Brexit were the ultimate establishment victories, there has been no revolution.'

Just a minute. Repetition. You have 30 seconds starting now.

I have explained why the people beat the elites, I have linked to articles about "tears in Number Ten" and there have been numerous references to crying, wailing, moaning and panicked screaming by the elites and their teams

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DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 16:11

The people and elites are just soundbite terms that mean nothing, especially when their definition is shifting all the time.

Trump isn't an outsider, he's the ultimate insider, like I said, the king of political donations, media job, using high powered lawyers. How many people who aren't insiders get invited to White House correspondents dinners? How many outsiders can say they've met with every President of the United states since 1980?

You can link to all the articles you like, often they don't quite say what you think they do.

Also over all of this you keep forgetting that actaully both "victories" were very slight, in no way is there any overwhelming thing about it.

Neither will deliver for "the people" that you claim. Both will deliver for "the elite" and strangely enough the liberal metropolitan educated elite will be just fine. Its the poor sods who were desperate for change who will be screwed over.

BertrandRussell · 02/01/2017 16:19

I still want to know what claig and others mean by "political correctness". I know they don't want any more of it, but what is it?

MakeItStopNeville · 02/01/2017 16:24

Trump can talk the talk to the white working class and poor of America but then shows how he really feels by choosing Stephen Mnuchin for Treasury. A man who could not give a flying shit about the working class and one of the sleaziest men in NYC. Not an elite?! Pah!!

fourmummy · 02/01/2017 16:30

Trump isn't an outsider, he's the ultimate insider, like I said, the king of political donations, media job, using high powered lawyers. How many people who aren't insiders get invited to White House correspondents dinners? How many outsiders can say they've met with every President of the United states since 1980?

None of this matters if he makes the right decisions (the right decisions being what Claig said above). They're all elites but some make very bad decisions, for example, Clinton, Obama, Blair.

claig · 02/01/2017 16:31

'The people and elites are just soundbite terms that mean nothing'

Then why do the PPEs on BBC Newsnight discuss them so often? They would probably rather none of it had happened, they would probably rather it would all go away and that everything was back to how the Establishment liked it, when it was cushtie before the people's revolutions of 2016.

But it is not going away, it happened, we won, the elite lost, and so they have to discuss the people vs the elites on BBC Newsnight and write about it in the Guardian, through tears that soak their keyboards.

'Trump isn't an outsider, he's the ultimate insider'

Good point. That's probably why all the media teams and the BBC and all the world's political class said he was "fit" to be President. I never thought of that.

'Also over all of this you keep forgetting that actaully both "victories" were very slight'

Yes but that was always likely to be the case because you had the entire Establishment, all their spinners, all their Oxbridge teams, all their media teams, all their BBCs on the side of the Establishment with thier scare stories and tactics etc. Some pensioners were frightened about their pensions after what some of the Oxbridge spinners and politicians said might happen if we left the Brussels Bureaucrats Dream, the FU. But inspite of all their media slanting and all ther big shots and all their smearing Trump as a fascist and Farage as a fascist and Trump as a "white supremacist" etc, the people still beat all their teams and MBEs and OBES and all the rest that were rewarded for their service in Brexit and with Trump.

'and strangely enough the liberal metropolitan educated elite will be just fine'

No they won't. They are in panic. Have you glanced at the Guardian and the New Statesman. They are in panic. Their game is up. Political correctness has been defeated. They are worrying about what will happen to what they spin as "progressives" and worrying when, if ever, their Oxbridge spinners will get back into power.

Here is Robert Peston, Oxbridge, Establishment favourite, former BBC i.e. the dog's bollocks as far as the elites are concered

It was the Great Rejection – 2016 was when people in Britain and America chucked out the traditional way of running their respective countries. This year we'll learn whether we have started a global revolt
...
But we should be in no doubt that there has been an earthquake and we are living through changes to our lives and livelihoods more important even than the momentous transfer of economic power from the state to the private sector by Thatcher and Reagan in the 1980s, and the consequent collapse of communism.

Now in some ways the timing of the revolt against the Establishment was odd, because those on lower incomes in Britain and America – angry that their earnings had gone nowhere for years – voted to throw the old guard out the window just when their living standards were beginning to improve. But there was a prevailing sense that the way we've been running the global economy for 30 years will only ever enrich a plutocracy and no one else, and enough was enough."

The progressives' game is up, the 172 are chewing their nails, the Guardian's finest are flailing at windmills that they promoted and are likely to be dismantled under Trump and what he calls the "climate change hoax". It is all over, the game's up, there was no bubbly at the Guardian's Office Party, most probably, just tears, moaning and wailing and Christmas greetings of "the game is up, comrade. The people won."

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DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 16:37

The Guardian and the New statesman are likely to be just fine as more people will read them as Trump/Brexit creates a lot of interest.

As it goes I don't agree with Peston. I think that Trump and Brexit have made platitiudes to appeal to those who think that the world isn't working for them in order to get into power. In the end these people will be the people done over.

Those liberal metropolitan elitists who own property, shares, have assets are going to be just fine.

claig · 02/01/2017 16:45

'strangely enough the liberal metropolitan educated elite will be just fine'

Here’s the thing. Trump’s triumph is just the latest — and most spectacular — in a series of peaceful and rather wonderful revolutions across the Western world.

A revolt against a ruling liberal political class which has caused untold havoc at home and mayhem and murder abroad. And the people have had enough of it.

Not just here and in the USA, but across Europe too.
...
From Budapest and Athens in the east, to San Francisco in the west, these liberals are on the retreat. From either right wing or left wing populists. Every time there’s an election, or a referendum, the liberal elite gets well and truly hammered."

www.thesun.co.uk/news/2153219/most-of-us-saw-donald-trumps-victory-coming-but-the-liberal-elite-have-not-learned-anything-since-brexit/

Here is one of teh liberal elite's "top thinkers", a Professor at one of teh Oxbridge colleges. If he is in meltdown, you know that the underlings certainly are, and you know that Blair will be

"Liberal internationalists have to own up: we left too many people behind"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/13/liberal-internationalists-populists-globalisation

I read one of Garton Ash's Guardian articles almsot praying that Merkel, the liberals' last hope, could save the entire European liberal establishment.

The reality is, it is all over, their game is up.

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Roussette · 02/01/2017 16:47

Gosh.

I've yet to see anyone doing any of these things -

weeping
wailing
drowning keyboards in tears
chewing nails
panicked screaming
sobbing
gnashing of teeth (I added that one myself, feel free to use it, it's just as made up as all the rest)
etc etc etc

You need to write fiction claig, you really do. It's all in your head

claig · 02/01/2017 16:49

'Those liberal metropolitan elitists who own property, shares, have assets are going to be just fine.'

The Guardian journalists and New Statesman Oxbridge graduates aren't going to be poor. They will still write the same cant and get invited to preach on the BBC, but in reality their influence will have waned, the political goals they worked for have failed, their mates in high places in politics from teh same colleges they went to will not be in power anymore for a long, long time to come. Political correctness has been defeated, they won't be able to get away with lecturing the masses anymore, all their dreams and schemes have turned to dust.

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DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 16:49

The liberal elite may be getting defeated but only because the opposition have realised that by using revolutionary words like you are its more likely to get people to vote for you.

In fact, do you know who used the vote for change first? Blair and Obama.
The right wing have simply adopted it and started to say the things that they think will win them votes while advocating change.

What will change is how much the wealthy take from society. There will be increased transfers from poor to rich.

fourmummy · 02/01/2017 16:51

The reality is, it is all over, their game is up.

It is. Even if they close down twitter, put the brakes on other social media, try to stop people communicating, it's still all over. We are travelling in a different direction now and it's unstoppable.

claig · 02/01/2017 16:52

"gnashing of teeth (I added that one myself, feel free to use it, it's just as made up as all the rest)"

Rod Liddle mentioned "gnashing" so I don't think it is made up

"Rod Liddle Most of us saw Donald Trump’s victory coming – but the liberal elite have not learned anything since Brexit

They’re all gnashing their teeth at the outrage of it, wailing and weeping, says Sun columnist"

www.thesun.co.uk/news/2153219/most-of-us-saw-donald-trumps-victory-coming-but-the-liberal-elite-have-not-learned-anything-since-brexit/

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Missswatch · 02/01/2017 16:53

Trump wants the Israeli PM at inauguration

www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/report-donald-trump-wants-benjamin-netanyahu-inauguration/

Missswatch · 02/01/2017 16:55

We are travelling in a different direction now and it's unstoppable

No brakes on the Trump Train. He is unstoppable

claig · 02/01/2017 16:56

'Even if they close down twitter, put the brakes on other social media, try to stop people communicating'

Realistically, I don't think they can get away with that. Some of the more dedicated among the servants would like nothing better, thinking that is the only way to save their bosses, but if they tried it, then the other 50% of the people who have not yet woken up would also wake up and understand what was being done to them, and the people's revolution would just get even bigger.

The elites are between a rock and hard place, they are on their last legs, which is why they have called upon the A Team, Blair and Sir Bob, that is all they have got left.

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DarthPlagueis · 02/01/2017 16:56

So what ? I don't agree with Rod Liddle either, frankly I think he's a twerp.

I prefer to read a wide range of different sources and come to my own conclusions, its an independent thing to do.

We are travelling in a different direction, but not one thats in the interest of the average person, one which in the interest of the 1%.

SwedishEdith · 02/01/2017 16:58

I'm still intrigued as to what claig is so desperate to say that "political correctness" prevents them from saying atm. Especially as claig said they "don't mind" if the far right take power in Europe.