Trump (Part 2)

[claig]

More on the meaning of Trump, the Trumpsters and Trumpism

"The Jewish people will probably finally be able to get a peace deal."

Can you explain what this means and how you think it will be brought about?

InformalRoman

On a similar note,
Get rid of the current establishment. What has it ever done for us?
Well, it has kept democracy.
Yes, but apart from democracy, what has it ever done for us?
There's free speech.
Yes, but apart from democracy and free speech, what has it ever done for us?
And more people with health cover.
Ok, then, but apart from democracy, free speech and more people with health cover, what has it ever done for us?
(And so on)

but now a populist rebellion is sweeping the whole world and Brexit was part of that.

Yes, populist, not popular.

You should look up the difference.

'Can you explain what this means and how you think it will be brought about?'

I think Trump will sort a deal out between the Jewish people and the Palestinians and he will get all the Arab people to agree with it and even the Iranians too. How he is going to do it, I don't know. That's why he wrote the "Art of the Deal" and is a billionaire and I didn't and am not.

'Trump: I'd love to make Israel-Palestine peace deal'

www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/11/trump-love-israel-palestine-peace-deal-161123060008778.html

Lweji I was also thinking of the parallels of how a disgruntled mob latch onto someone with a few sound bites and think he's the Messiah.

I see. You could have just answered "no".

Kaija. You're contributions are like a pesky fly!

Thank you, Inkanta

And this also is what Trump means to "the People"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/27/mosques-muslims-letters-genocide-threat?utmsource=dlvr.it&utmm_medium=twitter

www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-26/cia-taking-over-wikileaks-false-assange-emerges-gives-interview-after-dinner-varoufa

This is all Ive picked up Claig this last 24 hours

Informal - Life of Brian is right up there as one of my fave films. My point precisely. Trump is just an ordinary guy but this whole thing is bigger than Trump so it's pretty irrelevant if he fails. We are travelling a different road now. Others will continue what has been started.

fourmummy Come off it, in no way, shape or form is Trump "just an ordinary guy".

Thanks, Chris. It looks positive. If Craig Murray says he is OK, then I believe it.

"The first indirect proof of life came earlier today, when Craig Murray, the former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, human rights activist and writer, reported that he had "just got back after a long chat with Julian Assange. We were joined for a light supper by the ever interesting and ebullient Yanis Varoufakis. Another of those brilliant evenings that will live in the mind. Julian is very aware of the persistent rumours about his position or health. He is fine apart from a cold, and buoyed by recent events."

Of course, zerohedge, a great website, is listed as a "fake news" website by the elite. Soon the only non-fake news website they will leave us with is Channel 4 News and then we won't know what is going on in the world, which is the way the elite like it.

The latest I have heard is that there is a 16 year old in Macedonia, described on all mainstream media outlets as a "computer whizzkid", who goes by the name of "Dr NoNo", who is the "face" behind every "fake news" site in the world. The elite have told Big Brother to inform all internet "surfers" to only obtain their news about Trump from the BBC, the Guardian and Channel 4 News, as only they can be trusted to be "fair and balanced" in their reporting of what they call "the racist, misogynist, hater".

Claig:
"Do either of you admit it to be conceivable that you might be wrong about Trump? Or is that impossible?"

"Of course we do. Trump may be a con man, he may have tricked the people. The elite may want him there, he may sell out to the Establishment. This is beyond any Jason Bourne movie in what is happening. But I think Trump is the real deal and will change the world for the better, but only time will tell, just as it told for Bliar."

That's funny because I asked a very similar question yesterday and you gave the opposite answer:
"And if you are wrong and he is not fantastic, who will get the blame for the failures?"

"The elites of course."

"Do you honestly believe Trump will hold his hands up, or will he find some convenient scapegoats for his supporters to direct their anger?"

"He doesn't need to find scapegoats, everybody knows the elites and their media are against him. Trump will give it his best shot and the people hope it will be good enough to defeat the "paper tigers""

So which is it? If he fails, will that be enough evidence that your faith was misplaced, or will it all be someone else's fault?

Do all the other Trumpers on this thread agree with Claig that all Trump's promises - including peace in the Middle East, global prosperity, etc will all be achieved in less than 4 years? Surely not?

fourmummy: "this whole thing is bigger than Trump so it's pretty irrelevant if he fails. We are travelling a different road now. Others will continue what has been started".
Yes, this whole thing is much bigger than Trump and that's not a good thing. (It's not "irrelevant" if he fails though - he could do an awful lot of irreparable damage). The wave of anti-intellectualism (masquerading as anti-elitism), petty nationalism and the backlash against liberalism and feminism is not limited to America.

You might call this "the people's revolution". I call it a ginormous leap backwards.

That's funny because I asked a very similar question yesterday and you gave the opposite answer:
"And if you are wrong and he is not fantastic, who will get the blame for the failures?"

"The elites of course."

"Do you honestly believe Trump will hold his hands up, or will he find some convenient scapegoats for his supporters to direct their anger?"

"He doesn't need to find scapegoats, everybody knows the elites and their media are against him. Trump will give it his best shot and the people hope it will be good enough to defeat the "paper tigers""

So which is it? If he fails, will that be enough evidence that your faith was misplaced, or will it all be someone else's fault?

No, you have totally misunderstood what I was saying. I think Trump may not achieve everything he has promised because he will not be able to because the elites might stop him, and then of course, all Trump fans will blame the elites. Trump can only do what is humanly possible against the elites and all their teams. That is all assuming that Trump is genuine, which I assume.

However, it is also possible that Trump has tricked me and millions of Trump fans and is really working for the elites in which case he will obviously fail because he will do what they want and they want him to fail because that is what they want to happen to the people. But I don't think this is a likely scenario as I think the elites really are scared of Trump and the insults our Oxbridge teams hurled at Trump were real because they really believed that the elites would beat Trump and therefore like puppets and bullies they thought it was safe to pile in and give Trump a kicking.

Now that Trump has used Farage to humiliate thema and the EU bigwigs, I think they are regretting their rash misunderstanding of the enormity of events and are asking the Minsitry of Truth to delete all references to their insults on twitter and send them down the memory hole in Room 101. But the NSA probably has all of them filed away for Trump to peruse at his leisure, along with all of Hillary's 33000 deleted emails, if he feels like it.

Loving the life of Brian quotes by the way. "Get rid of the current establishment. What has it ever done for us?"

This is Dan Hodges in today's Mail on Sunday.

It just shows yet again how "we are led by very, very stupid people" and the sooner they understand what Trump is about and what he intends to do and get with it, the better for the country. Trump is not a "career politician", he doesn't get free bathplugs, he hasn't claimed for a moat and a duck house on expenses from the American people, he is not one of that lot, and the sooner they realise it the better

"Last week I had a drink with a businessman who has connections with the US defence industry. 'May has to find a way to shut them up,' he said, imploringly.

'Who do you mean?' I asked. 'These Tory MPs who keep criticising Trump. Nobody listens to them over here, but they hear it over there. The US is going to be our main market now. We need to build a relationship with them.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3974212/DAN-HODGES-Donald-Trump-destroyed-great-Brexit-fantasy.html

"Donald Trump Says He Won’t Take A Salary While President

During his first television interview as president-elect, Donald Trump told CBS News’ Leslie Stahl Sunday night that he would forgo taking a salary while he’s president. He added that he did not even know how much the president earned.

“I think I have to by law take $1, so I’ll take $1 a year,” Trump said. “But it’s a ― I don’t even know what it is. Do you know what the salary is?”

“$400,000 you’re giving up,” Stahl answered.

“No, I’m not gonna take the salary. I’m not taking it.”

www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-salary-president_us_5829224ce4b02d21bbc9565b

This is not a "career politician", a climber, a Bliar. This is Donald J Trump, the elites' worst nightmare.

"he hasn't claimed for a moat and a duck house on expenses from the American people"...
He hasn't had much of an opportunity yet....
...but he has paid for a 6ft portrait of himself with charity money...

www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/11/01/this-is-the-portrait-of-himself-that-donald-trump-bought-with-20000-from-his-charity/

Not to mention that donors to his campaign helped pay for headquarters at Trump tower at 3 x the market rate and the American taxpayer paid for security services to use his jet.

“No, I’m not gonna take the salary. I’m not taking it.”

A cynical person might wonder whether (in his mind) the fact that he's not being paid gives him more rein to do as he pleases, whether or not it is legal. Things like involving his family as part of the Presidential team, not giving up his business interests, etc.

"May has to find a way to shut them up,' he said, imploringly"
How does this relate to your strong values of free speech and democracy?

I'd be more reassured if he did put his business interests in a blind trust and took the salary.

'Things like involving his family as part of the Presidential team, not giving up his business interests, etc.'

If you read teh transcript of his interview with teh New York Times, he explains that a President is allowed to do any of that, there is nothing in teh Constitution that says he can't, but he said he won't do it because he does not want anyone to think there is any conflict.

'"May has to find a way to shut them up,' he said, imploringly"
How does this relate to your strong values of free speech and democracy?'

I don't think it is a good idea to insult the President of the United States or to insult Farge supporters by calling them "white supremacists" and "fascists".

But of course if we have Oxbridge Tory MPs who are that stupidand as Trump said "we are led by very, very stupid people" then they are free to make hay and insult the President of the United States as much as they like, just like the Channel 4 Oxbridge news team do, but as the UK businessman told Dan Hodges, these fools are harming the country's interests and many of us like Trump, we are not all like the Oxbridge teams.