Trump (Part 2)

[claig]

More on the meaning of Trump, the Trumpsters and Trumpism

"I don't think it is a good idea to insult the President of the United States"...
....I don't think it's a good idea to keep silent when the POTUS is using the rhetoric that Trump is. I understand the need for diplomacy, but that doesn't mean that Trump's policies, language and behaviour should be above criticism.

he said he won't do it because he does not want anyone to think there is any conflict.

I'll believe it when I see it! Since when did he care what anyone thought?

If he involves his family in his business and in the White House, then there's clearly a conflict of interest.

There is also a word for giving the jobs to your family regardless of their aptitude. It's called nepotism.

How do you reconcile Trump calling the US President stupid and the supposed respect people are supposed to show the US Presidency?

Here is Farage and he is right. Clearly Trump and his team, maybe Bannon being the driver, are humiliating our Establishment and they will probably humiliate the EU Establishment next. We are not off to a good start. How on earth did we get into this terrible situation with our closest and most important ally, the United States?

Because of the "very, very stupid people" who are also arrogant and from Oxbridge who looked down on Trump and the people of the United States and their choice of Presidential candidate and now President. What a disater! What a bunch of wallies!

But thank God for Farage and Katie Hopkins, they will show Trump that we are not all like the "very, very stupid people" who run us like Oxbridge Ed Miliband, Calamity Ed, a geek, nerd and wonk from Oxbridge who thinks it is clever to go on our national broadcaster, the BBC, staffed by Oxbridge graduates, who we all pay for out of taxes, and call the President-elect of the United States "the groper".

What a shower What did we do to deserve to be run by an Oxbridge clique of geeks who are such "very, very stupid people".

No wonder Nigel Farage is so popular, even though the media pretend he isn't, just like they pretended that Trump had no chance of winning.

"Nigel Farage vented his rage at the 'cesspit' establishment today after Downing Street dismissed Donald Trump's extraordinary call for him to become Britain's ambassador to the US.

No10 insisted the key post will not be vacant for at least four years after the president-elect tweeted that the Ukip leader would do a 'great job' as the UK's man in Washington.

Trump's intervention on behalf of his friend left ministers scrambling for a response, and raises more doubts about the prospects for a Special Relationship with Theresa May after he takes charge of the White House.

Mr Farage - who has blasted current ambassador Sir Kim Darroch as a 'fanatical Europhile' and warned his views will be unacceptable to the incoming commander-in-chief - said Trump was 'a very loyal man'.

'It is called trust and it is how the whole world of business operates,' he said.

'The world has changed. It's time that Downing Street did too...

'Sadly, the cesspit that is career politics understands nothing of this. In their world the concept of trust is transitory.'
...
The president-elect's endorsement is a fresh embarrassment for the Prime Minister, who had to be content with a short telephone call from Mr Trump when, in contrast, Farage was given a personal tour of the new leader of the free world's lavish New York home.
...
Writing on the Breitbart website - whose former executive chairman Stephen Bannon has been appointed Mr Trump's chief strategist - Mr Farage said: 'The political revolution of 2016 now sees a new order in charge of Washington. In the United Kingdom the people have spoken but the players at the top have, I am afraid, stayed the same.
...
'Those who supported Remain now hold senior positions. Worst still, those who were openly abusive about Trump now pretend to be his friend. It is career politics at its worst and it is now getting in the way of the national interest.

'At every stage I am greeted by negative comments coming out of Downing Street. The dislike of me, Ukip and the referendum result is more important to them than what could be good for our country.'

Such is the worry in Whitehall about the special relationship that Theresa May is set to use the Queen as her 'secret weapon' to win over Donald Trump by asking Her Majesty to invite the President-elect to Windsor Castle."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3959400/Donald-Trump-Nigel-Farage-great-job-Britains-US-ambassador.html

It all depends how much Trump or his team want to humiliate us. Our elite may have to go cap in hand to Katie Hopkins and Farage to plead for help. What a turnaround for the books" What a revolution! Not even Hans Christian Andersen could have written a story like this.

'How do you reconcile Trump calling the US President stupid and the supposed respect people are supposed to show the US Presidency?'

Because Trump is American and all American citizens can criticise their leaders and call them names,just as we as British citizens can take the piss out of Blair or Cameron, but we don't expect elected officials in other countries to join in.

"Groper" is a very generous description.

"Of course, zerohedge, a great website, is listed as a "fake news" website by the elite.

.....which is why its such a bummer when the fake sites provide sources and easily verifiable confirmation, unlike the panicking desperate MSM.

Because Trump is American and all American citizens can criticise their leaders and call them names,just as we as British citizens can take the piss out of Blair or Cameron, but we don't expect elected officials in other countries to join in

Since when did you claig get to say what we can or can't do?! You're getting a bit above yourself here!

As for calling the President elect 'the groper'. Fair I think. He is on record as saying he gropes so no lies there.

It's kind of funny how you say how important it is the relationship between the US and the UK and how you should be scared that the "special relationship" got broken.
This dependency was increased by... guess what... Brexit.
The UK is no longer holding the strong position of being within the EU. It will have to go alone.

It's actually pathetic the way Farage acts like Trump's lap dog. The guy has no spine.

As for a citizen criticising their own President. What Trump said was very insulting to the President. President that was elected by a large majority. So he insulted and disrespected both the Presidency and the voters.

History will say who has been very stupid.

And I will stress again that Trump won the election on a fluke and by a narrow margin (even in the states that gave him the win). When power change is a common occurrence and the electorate was primed to vote for the opposition. He just scraped through. Very poor performance on his part, in fact.

And as elected officials, MPs are not the same as the heads of state or leaders. Even so, there are some occasions when even leaders should speak out.

The Trump Revolution will spread everywhere because it is fuelled by the same divide between elites and people.

If Trump feels like it, if the arrogant stupid people piss him off, he may decide to spread the revolution faster than anyone can imagine.

Arron Banks has been over with Farage to meet Trump. It seems that Bannon, Farage, Banks see eye to eye on lots of things.

If anyone thinks that the Trump Revolution couldn't happen here, then they have been sleeping through the 15 months of the US election.

If anyone thinks that our useless clique of Oxbridge graduates at the BBC, Guardian, Channel 4 News and Parliament could withstand anyone with an iota of common sense challenging for office, then they have been asleep throughout the entire 15 month Trump rout.

If Trump gives the green light, if he says "all stations go", Banks might set a hare running and nobody knows which hound would win.

"Millionaire Brexit campaigner Arron Banks reveals plan to bring Donald Trump's 'drain the swamp' to UK"

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/arron-banks-donald-trump-drain-the-swamp-scrap-lords-brexit-us-elections-a7429401.html

If anyone thinks that the Oxbridge metropolitan clique would withstand the cold light of common sense, then they have learned nothing from Trump.

All the insults in the world from Channel 4 News et al won't make the slightest difference and will probably only make things worse.

'Since when did you claig get to say what we can or can't do?! You're getting a bit above yourself here!'

I am saying that Americans can criticise their leaders as much as they like and can shout "Lock her Up" as much as they like, just as we can criticise our leaders, but our leaders should not criticise American Presidential candidates because our leaders are only our representatives and they don't speak for all of us and should not harm all of our interests out of their arrogance and stupidity.

There is no Trump revolution. :)

He hasn't even taken office, let alone prove he's the real deal. Or that he can drain any puddle, let alone Washington.

His record so far only suggests he'll add to the mud. Idols with clay feet indeed.

'There is no Trump revolution. '

Here is Farage on it

"Mr Farage said: 'The political revolution of 2016 now sees a new order in charge of Washington. In the United Kingdom the people have spoken but the players at the top have, I am afraid, stayed the same."

Apologies if already posted

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/27/donald-trump-conflicts-interest-constitutional-crisis?CMP=fb_gu

Serial electoral failure Farage can fuck right off with claiming to speak for "the people".

The Telegraph on Farage:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/27/nigel-farage-should-britains-ambassador-donald-trump/

Thanks, shirley, good link. Trump sees it differently to those experts. Knowing Trump's lack of detail on some issues, he is more likely to be wrong than those experts.

Good article, BoredofBrexit.

Tim Stanley seems to be quite influential. As with most of them, he was against Trump, but it looks like he is a realist and realises the whole world has changed and we now have to change with it. The old ways are over. We have seen a revolution, and it ain't over yet.

"Nigel Farage should be Britain’s ambassador to the United States, or some job like it. I can hear the sound of jaws dropping. “Really, Tim? Nigel Farage?” It was, until recently, an unthinkable idea. But so was Brexit and so was President Donald J Trump. Times have changed.

Our sense of possibilities needs to adjust, too. We have to ask ourselves what we want in this brave new world of conservative populism. The bromance between Farage and Trump offers opportunities."

What's claig going to do if Farage comes out and supports Le Pen?

Well, I can imagine it'll go along the lines of "No, Le Pen's Ok, the elites are making all the nasty stuff up about the National Front." But since claig was talking positively about Fillon on the last thread, it'll be interesting to watch developments here.

Interesting parallels between this thread and the actual election.

I for one thought the American media merely vacuous and puerile, constantly value signalling their liberal credentials with thinly veiled name calling towards Trump.

I'm now wondering whether they had anything to say, whether they had any argument against him that was either persuasive or effective.

That constantly calling Trump names didn't work is obvious though it doesn't seem to have stopped the meme. Or dissuaded their disciples from taking their lead. Frankly there doesn't seem to be much discussion of policy since the election, just more name calling.

On this thread I've even tried feeding the other side of the debate due to the poverty of thought, pointing out policies which might be worth discussing. Trying to highlight interesting scenarios. The response, oh that's awful lets get back to calling claig names....

So does the media's vacuous coverage result in vacuous debate on social media? Or is there something more deeply ingrained, do the media and their followers actually believe that name calling and silly innuendo is the debate?

In other words is there actually a section of the population who see political correctness as an end in itself? Politics therefore being a simple game of the most politically correct being the correct candidate, and the less virtuous being almost literally the devil?

Whilst I think most rational people would lean towards the former I do now wonder whether identity politics has so entrained its adherents that they are no longer able to discern the subtleties of politics. You are either for us or against us, the virtuous or the devil.

The interesting thing here for me is that policies don't matter, I haven't seen any of Hillarys policies discussed as being superior, merely some vagina waving about the electorate being sexist.

The absurdity of course is that labelling a group for vilification only works if it is a small group. A small party, a subsection of society. Once epithets are used against the majority they lose their power to shun or mock. Even this though doesn't seem to stop the one card trick at their disposal.

Highly amusing times.

but our leaders should not criticise American Presidential candidates because our leaders are only our representatives and they don't speak for all of us and should not harm all of our interests out of their arrogance and stupidity

He is not a leader. He is a former labour leader, he can say what he wants. He's on the back benches.

If Trump feels like it, if the arrogant stupid people piss him off, he may decide to spread the revolution faster than anyone can imagine

I'd love to know how he's going to do that

'There is no Trump revolution.'

Here is Farage on it

That's your evidence? Really?

My jaw hits the floor several times each page

Shirley - You think this thread is controversial or something? This is mild. My jaw nearly dropped when I saw all the so-called objective journalists coast-to-coast blubbering into their mics on Nov 9. They displayed their partiality and unprofessionalism, and one could see in a flash that they, to a man, must hv spent a career skewing the news.

I'm now wondering whether they had anything to say, whether they had any argument against him that was either persuasive or effective.

That's entirely your perspective.

Many have the completely opposite opinion.

The interesting thing here for me is that policies don't matter, I haven't seen any of Hillarys policies discussed as being superior,
You haven't been paying attention, then.

On this thread I've even tried feeding the other side of the debate due to the poverty of thought, pointing out policies which might be worth discussing. Trying to highlight interesting scenarios. The response, oh that's awful lets get back to calling claig names

That's your perception Spin.