Trump (Part 2)

[claig]

More on the meaning of Trump, the Trumpsters and Trumpism

When someone puts in many hours cheerleading for a president elect who had his most vocal support amongst white supremacists, and who has brought them into the White House, it is an entirely reasonably question to ask.

Corbyn is like your black friend that "shows" you're not racist.

Claig, you et al. have been doing your best to discredit the left and anyone who disagrees with you as elite, establishment or as being bought

I don't see it like this at all. What I've observed is an exchange of opinion, and a very interesting one at that. Someone says something. At that point, others have several choices -listen, respond, walk away. If anyone can produce a convincing argument, good on them. The arts of oratory and rhetoric are very undervalued. Let's keep it civil.

fourmummy: I wasn't talking about Trump last night, I was thinking of the accusations against Asange which so many are keen to dismiss as false and cooked up by the Americans. I don't know, obviously whether they are true or not, but they seem credible and I have never understood the blind trust in the man.

Claig has some sympathy for Corbyn's socialism. And a lot of sympathy for Trump and Farage's nationalism. Does that make a national socialist?

'No, you won't get to sit nicely in your corner with your mates and no challenges to your opinions.'

No one has prevented you from speaking, you have been on all of my threads of thousands of posts about Trump near enough from the start. Sometimes you have been rude and snide just as you are on Jupiter2Mars's thread about Trump, but that is free speech and your style, no problem.

But stuff about "white supremacism" and fascism about the greatest President of the United States, Donald J Trump, loved by the Stump for Trump Sisters and all Trump fans across the world, is tasteless, dirty and disgusting. It smears a good humoured thread with bile, hate and shit.

Farage broke records in Clacton, Essex by getting a crowd of 1000 to attend a political meeting, Corbyn does even better by getting crowds of 3000, but few would turn out for George Osborne.

Trump breaks all records because good Americans of all races want hope and change and someone to beat the elites and think that Donald J Trump is their man. The media fear him and smear him and call him
fascist, but we have all learned what liars they are thanks to Wikileaks.

The Trump Train. The people are rising and hope is rising in the greatest democracy on earth, the United States and we should all be very grateful for it here in the UK, because Trump will ensure that we too are always free and have free speech in our great democracy too.

'Claig has some sympathy for Corbyn's socialism. And a lot of sympathy for Trump and Farage's nationalism. Does that make a national socialist?'

There we go, That is Kaija all over. Sad and full of bile.

'Corbyn is like your black friend that "shows" you're not racist.'

Another one of your quite disgusting statements, Lweij, but we are all used to it by now.

Kaija tells it how it is. I thought you liked that sort of thing? Who cares where she is from. I am part Polish - am I still allowed to comment?

There seems to be a lot of confusion about what "free speech" and "McCarthyism" means. If you post something on a public forum and someone points out the inacuracy or irrationality of your post, or even just plain disagrees with you they are not "shutting down your free speech". They are not trolling you either if they ask you to clarify what you mean. And being less than enthusiastic about the president elect is not McCarthyism.

Oh dear, Claig, you said this was a good humoured thread. Was that not your kind of humour?

I'm sorry but you can't keep whitewashing Farage and Trump and expect no challenges.

I can't quote now cos I got marmite on my ipad and my cat licked it off. It seems to have buggered it up a bit.

People absolutely have the right to support Trump and Farage, of course they do, that's democracy. We also have the right though to tell them that we believe that is taking us down a dangerous path. If they continue to support them, well, that's the path we take.

And yes, if you defend a man with links to white supremacy who has made racist, Islamophobic statements in the past then others may judge you for it. That isn't shutting down free speech either.

I have to admit to being a tiny bit titillated by the thought of being both Latvian and elite. I think that's how I'll introduce myself from now on.

"I am not going to be saying to my daughter in five years time when she asks where I was when the far right were growing rapidly 'I kept quiet because what I said offended some people'."

On mumsnet? Really? Fighting the march of nazi white supremacy on mumsnet. Britain First forums must be sighing a huge sigh of relief that youre tying yourself up over here and giving them a break.

"And yes, if you defend a man with links to white supremacy who has made racist, Islamophobic statements in the past then others may judge you for it. That isn't shutting down free speech either."

Quite.

So what brought you to mumsnet, Chris? Advice on breastfeeding?

If anyone has forgotten why we are here, Trump has just been elected the next President of the US.

I'm just wondering why you are feeling the need to discuss it on mumsnet if you think it is such a ludicrous irrelevant forum?

I'm just wondering why you are feeling the need to discuss it on mumsnet if you think it is such a ludicrous irrelevant forum?

'and someone points out the inacuracy or irrationality of your post'

What has pointing out the inaccuracy of my posts got to do with calling me a "national socialist" because I like Farage and Corbyn, or calling me a "white supremacist" because I like Trump and the think the black Stump for Trump Sisters are the funniest people on the internet.

I don't care if you are half Polish or if Kaija is Latvian or Ukrainian and hates Putin and Russians, that is free speech. But I do care that she tries to shut down threads where I suport Trump by accusing me of being a fascist and national socialist when I am supporting Farage like 4 million other English and Welsh and Scottish people did.

Can we return to some English tolerance and politeness and not call anybody a fascist for supporting Farage or Trump?

Chris, you have absolutely no idea what I do irl :)

Assange continued what Blair started. I took the same trajectory as Claig. I voted for Blair, all bright-eyed and bushy tailed, in order to get rid of Tory sleaze, and then proceeded to be rocked to the very core by Blairite lies, or 'spin' as they called it. Not only that, but Blair and co proceeded to "rub our noses in it". They didn't even try to cover up the lies or their belief in the stupidity of the electorate! Blair became Ratner and it was the Ratner moments that brought him down. Unfortunately for Blair, the internet ensured his departure and, more importantly, changed a whole generation's relationship with authority. The trust went, perhaps never to return. Trump would have won without Assange but Assange is a very, very brave man. It's really something when real life starts to approximate the Jason Bourne movies.

You like nationalism, you like socialism. It was an obvious joke to make once you had indicated that this thread was all about good humour. Sorry if you were offended.

Chris: "On mumsnet? Really? Fighting the march of nazi white supremacy on mumsnet."
Many of us did not originally join this site to debate rising far right nationalism, Donald Trump, and other politics. It is just hard to see false statements and unpleasant rhetoric posted on threads like this and not challenge it. What brought you here?
I am not on any Britain First Forums, Chris. Are you?
If I met you spouting your opinions in real life, I am ashamed to say that I probably wouldn't challenge you. I think you are a man (apologies if I have assumed wrong), in which case you are almost certainly bigger than me, and you react with a lot of anger to criticism.

As well as the Italian referendum next weekend, the Austrians go back to the ballot box. Hofer is indeed looking in a strong position, though of course we know how accurate polls are these days, but the interest on the world stage cant now be ignored. Will Austrians vote, influenced by the world watching?

Renzi committed political suicide by announcing hed go if he lost (the previous win then turned into a landslide loss), will Austria take advantage of the fragility of the EU?

www.ft.com/content/164591d4-b168-11e6-9c37-5787335499a0