Trump (Part 2)

[claig]

More on the meaning of Trump, the Trumpsters and Trumpism

www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-3963324/Jury-retire-trial-man-accused-murdering-Jo-Cox.html

This Kaija? or are you refering to this www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/24/daily-mail-jailing-jo-coxs-murderer-front-page

The print edition in all the shops this week.

Herself kaija.

Why does she constantly have to answer your thinly veiled bile?

"Does claig really have to answer for every perceived injustice dredged up by trolls with little to say?"

Absolutely Spin, and Ill stop feeding them too. (Bit miffed I bit on that last one....apols)

Lol.

Oh there's biting Chris and then there's prolonging the agony. :)

I think we know which is which!

"Rather ironically I suspect the new left will be seeking to roll back the infringements on personal liberty installed by the current supposed left. Whether that be the power of corporations which left unchecked resulted in porous borders for cheap labour and trade agreements negotiated by corporate lawyers in secret. Or the vast spying networks trained to snoop on every aspect of our lives. Maybe with an added sensible and pragmatic view towards the environment, rather than rabid fear mongering where dissenters are labelled, it might be enough to win power. "

Id agree with that, but just to add, its taken this phemonemal swing to produce some common sense. Its way too early to announce a premature re-settling of sensible balance. The 'old' left are still kicking, screaming and clinging on.

"He invited me to Washington, I told him that I hadn't been there for a long time as I had been treated as a 'black sheep,' to which he replied, laughing: 'Me too.'"

Brilliant. Im loving this whole refreshing approach.

'Why does she constantly have to answer your thinly veiled bile?'

Thanks, Spinflight.

Kaija doesn't like me for some reason. The more I think about why, the more it strikes me that Kaija is probably anti Russian and I am not anti Putin, I don't want war. I like Trump and I am glad Trump wanst peace with Russia so that we don't have to end up in a world war.

Kaija didn't know what the "People's Army" was which makes me think she is not English and didn't follow the whole UKIP thing at the time Kaija seesm to be a Latvian name, and I understand that many Latvians are not keen on Russians and that is fine, but I am English and don't want hostility with Russia.

That is probably why Kaija doesn't like me or Trump or Farage, who is also not anti Putin.

In fact, Kaija, frequently accuses me of being a troll working for Putin out of St Petersburg and links to the Guardian article about how much these trolls get paid.

I have never seen Kaija on these boards before and I have been here for 7 years, so I think she doesn't like me because I like Farage and Trump who are both not anti Russian.

'Brilliant. Im loving this whole refreshing approach.'

I agree, Chris. I think the four years of Trump are going to be tremendous and will upturn all the certainties and create new opportunities and a much brighter future for all of us and with Trump in charge, common sense and free speech will be guaranteed for all of us in Europe. It is a people's revolution.

Just heading back to your post Claig in the potential change of direction on MSM.....just spotted this in the Economist. Supporting an Italy No vote? Well well well. Their last para is equally as surprising, not just the acknowledgement, but that The Esteemed Economist arent able to answer whether the euro is fragile or not. Guessing investors are doubly nervous now.

'What, then, of the risk of disaster should the referendum fail? Mr Renzi’s resignation may not be the catastrophe many in Europe fear. Italy could cobble together a technocratic caretaker government, as it has many times in the past. If, though, a lost referendum really were to trigger the collapse of the euro, then it would be a sign that the single currency was so fragile that its destruction was only a matter of time.'

www.economist.com/news/leaders/21710816-country-needs-far-reaching-reforms-just-not-ones-offer-why-italy-should-vote-no

Thanks, Chris. I will read that. Interesting that it advocates a No vote.

Im relying on you Claig to tell me if Channel 4 have a change in direction. I cant bear any tv news except the occasional Sky coverage(they do at least try to get balanced panels together). BBC wont shift at all, theyve been working to their own agenda for way too long, but C4 and the rest will be interesting to see.

'Im relying on you Claig to tell me if Channel 4 have a change in direction'

I'll let you know, but I doubt they will

Good point about Sky, I watch their Sky News for 24 hour coverage rather than the BBC because I think they are better than the rest. Even though Murdoch was not really for Trump throughout and Trump slammed him a few times on twitter, I think Murdoch is a realist and will therefore accept reality and at least not churn out propaganda against Trump.

"Trump is the real deal. He has defeated the elites and is of course now the people's President and the new elite that serves the people".

Let's have it right - millionaire narcissist Donald J Trump serves no one but himself, never has, never will.

This is not about The People, (who are being played, both here and in the US), it's about replacing one elite with another, and using the basest tactics and promoting the worst values to do so.

No one of any intelligence can believe Trump is some sort of messiah. He will crash and burn one way or another. Most probably he will get bored and give. It up as a bad job. Can't see him sitting through meetings, reading briefings, making difficult decisions day in day out, failing to deliver on his ludicrous promises, weathering the negative attention and criticism that will come along as his "policies" fail to deliver.

I shouldn't be feeding the troll, but it's late and I can't help myself.

Well the referendum is a loaded question. All sorts of inconvenient details like immunity from prosecution for officials, a second chamber elected purely by politicians and the right to veto anything that they don't like. Basically it's another EU stitch up.

I recall the beginning of the film Canadian bacon where the US is trying to find a new enemy. Turns that that other than Jane Fonda they're all powerless or teaching basket weaving at American universities. So they decide to go to war with Canada over their superior zambuni technology (the things that ice the ice rinks).

The US has had such a preponderance of power that it has become almost ridiculous to assign evil intent to foreign demagogues. If there's a revolt then the chances of them not being behind it are slight.

But some systems need an outside oppressor, a threat to justify extravagant state powers. Oh and it goes without saying that if you aren't against them then you must support them.

Certainly I find watching Putin's take far more revealing than the attempted good jihadis versus bad jihadis spiel. Someone should get them to wear black and white hats and confront each other at high noon to make it easier for the press.

Who wouldn't want to see world leaders getting along? There should be no black sheep amongst people who represent their people, that is just foolish and unstatesmanlike.

Its remarkable to see the old left kicking and screaming. Thing is they haven't learned any new tricks. Whole countries that don't agree with them are racist or uneducated. A candidate can't break the glass ceiling, not because shes a corrupt crooked liar but because she's a woman. If you vote the wrong way we'll get you to vote again.

Amusing but pathetic.

"Let's have it right - millionaire narcissist Donald J Trump serves no one but himself, never has, never will."

Then why didn't he retire and play golf? He couldn't have been much more famous as it was and I doubt the $400k salary tickled his fancy.

Seriously? Isn't it obvious why Trump wanted this?
Power.

And btw, he won an election. Not a war on any elites.
He got voted in against another candidate for which the people voted for as well.
So far, many of us feel that the racist, misogynist, rich, totalitarian elites have won. The election. Not the war.

Wait until they start fighting reproductive rights, the middle class income, health cover for the vulnerable, Muslims in general.
And then turn their attention on you, because while they attacked the weaker, you did nothing as it had nothing to do with you (and benefited you for a while).
I think I read something about similar circumstances before.

Something like:
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."

Always keep this in mind when choosing your side.

Also, Spinflight, Trump wants his children to retain control of his business.
He, as president and Republican leader, can manipulate international deals, tax laws and national regulations to hugely benefit his own business.

Someone upthread even said they were happy for him to do so.

Are some people really this naive?

Who wouldn't want to see world leaders getting along? There should be no black sheep amongst people who represent their people, that is just foolish and unstatesmanlike.

Seriously?
You were born yesterday, right?

Hard to choose where to start with last night's little far right festival, but this fairly typical little gem:

"Its remarkable to see the old left kicking and screaming. Thing is they haven't learned any new tricks. Whole countries that don't agree with them are racist or uneducated."

Point me to anything written anywhere remotely matching this description. If you're talking about the left's reaction to Trump voters, nobody is suggesting they represent the whole country. Far from it - they were considerably outnumbered by Clinton voters as we know and keep pointing out.

This stuff would be so much easier to deal with if the right weren't so depressingly sloppy in all of their arguments.

"I have never seen Kaija on these boards before and I have been here for 7 years, so I think she doesn't like me because I like Farage and Trump who are both not anti Russian."

I have been here longer than you Claig. What I don't like is seeing these boards used not for reasoned debate but for foghorn propaganda.

For those who have short memories or rose tinted glasses and think Russia is not interested in or capable of manipulating the US.

"The day we discovered our parents were Russian spies"

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-our-parents-were-russian-spies-tim-alex-foley

Also:

"Putin implicated in fatal poisoning of former KGB officer at London hotel"

www.google.pt/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/putin-implicated-in-fatal-poisoning-of-former-kgb-spy-at-posh-london-hotel/2016/01/21/2c0c5052-bf92-11e5-98c8-7fab78677d51_story.html

Quite. And speaking of which:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/top-scientist-who-discovered-litvinenko-9325403.amp?client=safari