Trump vs Clinton - the final 3 days

[claig]

Into the final lap now after over 1 year of entertainment, education and excitement. Donald J Trump is nearly there against all expectations.

'although we made the New York Times today'

The Trump effigy images are all over US non-mainstream media sites, they are everywhere because they are so huge and effective. Trump probably loves it "there is no such thing as bad publicity"

"Add the media to that, as Trump so often says. "

Yeah the emails are littered with journalists for the mainstream media asking the democrats for their orders, questions to ask, even rigging the debates by pre releasing the questions.

Also explicit instructions on how to rig the polls by overweighting certain demographic groups. It even seems that the banks have a hand in this, at one point an executive from Morgan Stanley emails to tell them to expect a good poll from CNN.

There's some funny stuff about Clinton too. Podesta suggests that she's given a staffer to punch the crap out of before the debates so that she'll look and sound more like a human. They noticed that when she's particularly obnoxious in the mornings to her staff she cheers up later.

I'm trying to think what's missing... What I'd expect to see in there that hasn't already come out. Clinton's illness, whatever it was, isn't ever mentioned which is surprising. Not a great deal about her private email server, except Podesta saying that whoever advised her should be hung, drawn and quartered.

A bit rich from him. I mean constantly going on the news complaining about Russian hackers when you've set your password to be p@sswOrd is so moronic as to deserve it's own comedy sketch.

I thought he'd like it too, claig.

He probably doesn't get it, but no doubt it pleased him.

'He probably doesn't get it, but no doubt it pleased him.'

Yes, as long as his hair looks OK, he doesn't care. He just loves being talked about and noticed. Being ignored is his worst nightmare. The Chinese nickname for Trump is "Big Mouth", he probably loves that too.

The Lewes bonfire nights are great, a great tradition. How come they are so huge there and not the same anywhere else? When did it get so famous in Lewes, when did it start?

'we only burn "enemies of bonfire" - ie. establishment / authority figures who are widely disliked by people 'round these parts.'

How do they choose? Is there a public vote? I hope it is not BBC insiders, top brass and elites who decide, otherwise it will be Trump every year.

AntideluveanCat I know. I saw a Trump effigy go on a bonfire myself. I was thinking of an article I'd read recently about a Hallowe'en masks factory, which has correctly predicted every President in recent elections by the number of sales. This year, they are outselling masks of Donald Trump (grotesque masks; not 'normal' masks). It made me think that the reason effigies of Trump made an appearance at so many bonfires could be because there is an unusual fascination with him (because it's such an unusual election in so many ways) and not necessarily because he is hated. I tried my theory on the people I was with but they didn't believe me. I still maintain that there's something in it

So all those of you who hate the 'elites'. I guess you were big fans of Mao and his Cultural Revolution then. Drat those experts etc.

Ha ha at the "elites" choosing who to burn

There are six Bonfire Societies, and they each choose which effigy to build and burn. But they are very in-step with local thinking, so spectators usually thoroughly approve. We don't get to see them until the night of the 5th, so its a very exciting part of the evening and provokes a lot of speculation.

No one really knows when it started. The earliest documentary evidence is from the start of the 19th century, but presumably it had been going on in some form long before that. As to why it endures - not sure really, but there are lots of different 'strands' to it: the celebration of deliverance from the Gunpowder Plot, a big dollop of anti-catholicism (not so nice that, so it tends to be played down, though we still burn Pope Paul V annually), remembrance of the protestant Marian Martyrs burned in the town in the 16th c., remembrance of the fallen in the wars, and a bloody minded, independent, protesting streak that seems to be in the towns DNA. The local motto is "Sussex won't be druv" (i.e.driven, or told what to do).

We're all terribly proud of it, and it's bigger than Christmas here.

I'll shut up now, as I could bore for England on the subject, and this thread is meant to be about the US election, but here's a link with lots more info on it, if anyones interested.

His hair NEVER looks OK, claig

Fourmummy - I think the Hallowe'en masks are selling so well because he's a truly scary individual!

A friend of mine went to a Hallowe'en party dressed as Rob Titchner from the Archers for the same reason. Except Rob is fictional. The Donald isn't, so he's even more terrifying.

'So all those of you who hate the 'elites'. I guess you were big fans of Mao and his Cultural Revolution then.'

No because we love democracy, freedom, liberty and power of the people, not a Blairite Maoist elite of Oxbridge graduates who think they know better than us.

The journalist you mentioned, Andrew Sullivan, who is a conservative and has written some good sensible things in teh past, was on Channel 4 News just now and he either doesn't get it or he pretends, like all the elite, that he doesn't get it. He is clever, so I think he gets it. He is voting for Hillary and the giveaway was when he said "it is about saving the system". That is the same for all the elites, who are there often only because they are useless and won't be there after Trump gets in.

Trump is the opposite of "saving the system" which the cushioned elites need. Trump says the system "is rigged and corrupt", so he is not going to "save it" and that doesn't suit the cushioned elites.

'His hair NEVER looks OK, claig'

Don't tell him that. his hair is his pride and joy.

But in an election year, for the sake of the people, Trump is prepared to have it messed up.

'We don't get to see them until the night of the 5th, so its a very exciting part of the evening and provokes a lot of speculation.'

That is brilliant - the expectation and surprise, like opening Christmas presents.

' The local motto is "Sussex won't be druv" (i.e.driven, or told what to do).'

Blimey, us freedom loving Trump supporters may have to move down there. This is sounding like Texas with "don't tread on me" and don't let the politically correct tell us how to think and ban Germaine Greer from speaking at universities.

This is from an article about the Hallowe'en masks:

"And yet, the Arnolds weren’t hate-buying their “Billionaire Tycoon Mask” from Total Party in Crystal City, Va. They are leaning towards voting for Trump in the crucial swing state of Ohio"

I think there's an awful lot going on, which is reflected in all of these little indicators such as the masks, the effigies (ok, ok, I'll give you that one - perhaps they do genuinely hate him in Lewes) that is not being picked up by pollsters, MSM, analysts. This election is not a binary choice, or a simple 'Hate Trump' one by any means although pollsters and analysts are desperately trying to make it so by pigeonholing.

claig, you don't love "love democracy, freedom, liberty and power of the people" because Trump is profoundly anti-democratic. You can't get any more anti-democratic than saying before the election you may not accept the results. You cannot get any less democratic than instructing your henchmen to try to intimidate voters. You can't get any less democratic than threatening to lock up your political opponents without a trial.

Trump loves one thing only, and it's definitely not "love democracy, freedom, liberty and power of the people". Trump loves Trump.

OK, maybe two things. He loves p too.

'(ok, ok, I'll give you that one - perhaps they do genuinely hate him in Lewes)'

I very much doubt they really hate him. Trump is the pantomime villain because that is all the elites have left, so all their media channels blast it out all day long and yet polls show that even Hillary supporters say the media is biased against him. The people are not as stupid as the elites think, which is why Cameron has now gone from politics. They all know that the people who really hate Trump are the elites, the Guardian, the New Statesman and the politically correct controllers, because they will lose their privilege and then "Sussex won't be druv" any more.

Even Hillary fans laugh when Obama says that Trump's team have banned Trump from using his twitter account in case he sticks his foot in it. They think he is a laugh rather than the threat that the elites and their media hosts want the public to believe.

That is why he is taking their whole system apart in a surreal Dadaesque performance that has the world entertained and the elites panicked because the Project Fear and "Punishment Budgets" that they always use have no effect on Trump because Trump is a laugh rather than a threat. Trump only threatens the elites and after Tuesday, the world will laugh at their panic.

too few stars but I think you can guess what it referred to...

You're coming across as a bit deranged, claig.

Most of us are watching this election from behind the sofa, peering out between our fingers hoping it's not really real.

You appear to be revelling in it in a slightly orgiastic fashion, which looks rather odd from outside.

'You can't get any more anti-democratic than saying before the election you may not accept the results.'

Yes you can. Trump wants a fair election. He doesn't trust the elites, so if he thinks it was unfair (Wikileaks rigged style) then he reserves the right to challenge it for the sake of the people and against the wishes of the elite who insist that there is no rigging. Don't forget that Trump understands the elite, he worked with them all in New York and all acroos the United States. If anyone understands their game, it is Trump. He has got their number and they know it.

As Trump says, Obama is a phoney. He says the whole political class and system is phoney. Andrew Sullivan is desperate to "save the system", but Trumo will end the phoney system and the useless phonies ripping off the people in their charidees and floundations with their "pay for play" will be the losers.

I am a Trump fan. I think it is fun because Trump will end the rigged system. You look at it behind fingers because you support the status quo.

So the candidate who promises to end the corruption which certainly appears to be endemic at all levels of US politics is the devil incarnate?

Not sure I get the logic..

Trump is a phony. He's right in the middle of the elite, as you yourself have pointed out. He donated to Hillary, ffs.

The only difference between him and them is he pretends to be outside the whole thing.

You don't really get any phonier than that. If he's a common man, I'm the Queen.

He's like a bully who pretends to be one of the victims when the teacher's looking at him, and then goes right back to beating up the other kids as soon as the teacher's back is turned.

If anyone protests and tries to point out he's lying, he just shouts his 'look at me, i'm the viiiictim here!' shtick even louder.

It's not remotely convincing. He's a nasty bully. End of.

'Trump is a phony. He's right in the middle of the elite, as you yourself have pointed out. He donated to Hillary, ffs.'

Yes, but he has flipped. That is why the elites are so scared of him and all across the world, they are all praying that Hillary wins tomorrow. That is why George H W Bush is voting for Hillary.

He doesn't obey their conventions, he has zero respect for the entire political class and Obama, he says the entire system is phoney, he says they are "puppets". When have you ever seen a politician act like that? Can you imagine anything like that with an Oxbridge MP in England? It is impossible. Only in America, only Trump and that is why they are scared.

This was tweeted by Max Keiser, who is left wing, and who has endorsed Trump

It's called "You're finished" i.e. the media and if Trump wins Tuesday, the entire rigged system is finished and some people will be going to jail

"Trump is a phony. He's right in the middle of the elite, as you yourself have pointed out. He donated to Hillary, ffs."

Yeah and he was a democrat not so long ago.

As many people correctly note Trump cares about Trump, his name is his brand and he protects it vociferously. There's a select few who have beaten him, won suits against him but even they admit their admiration for the way he fought.

Trump as president, I think we can assume he'd carry on in the same vein, protecting his name and the integrity of the office less it tarnish his brand. That's a pretty good thing for the POTUS to do.

Compare and contrast, Nixon did not resign due to the watergate scandal, he resigned after being approached by politicians from all sides who said they considered he was bringing the office into disrepute. I think we all remember how Bill ( who is up to his usual games, the emails contain many references to a woman known as the Energiser) clung on to power and lied through his teeth despite the reputational harm done to the office ( literally in terms of stains!) and himself. I think Bush won the election by saying the first thing he'd do upon entering the Oval office would be to hose the entire place down. :)

Hillary too, she's as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo but, with the establishment machine behind her, she carries on as though nothing has happened.