Clinton V Trump - into the final three weeks.

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

new thread. :)

'but why you think that puts us on the same side as a fascist like Trump I can't imagine'

You are free to support the Establishment instead of Trump, you don't have to side with Trump like the milliosn of people of al colours choose to do. If you prefer the Establishment and the status quo and TTIP and TPP and the wars in the Middle East, it is up to you, but don't call the millions who prefer Trump fascists because they prefer Trump to Clinton, Bush or Blair.

'And you're naive in the extreme if you genuinely think race or gender has got nothing to do with it. If white men weren't allowed to vote in the US, Trump wouldn't have made it through the primaries.'

It has got nthing to do with race. It is about the American people, the united American people, miliatry veterans of all colours who support Trump and have served their country, people in the inner cities and the country, there are Trumpsters everywhere as you will find out when Trump wins. And why should men not be allowed to vote just because the majority of white men support Trump? Everybody is equal, everybody is an American irrespective of colour or sex or sexuality. It is about a uited people not a divisive rule and divide of different races set against each other.

'So why are you trying to obfuscate here?'

I am not trying to obfuscate, why are you saying that I am.

'Given that he spends all his time denigrating women and anyone who isn't white and American.'

The majority of white women support Trump and the majority of white men support Trump. So what? Are they not allowed to vote because you don't like Trump?

flowers

I think claig is a little naive

'How can billionaire member of the elite Trump possibly represent your mythical We The People against...erm..billionaire elites?'

RTFTs . We have been over this 100 times. listen to his final TV advert. Do you think the millions of people who support Trump and are going to make him the next President are stupid? Even Krishnan understands that Trump has the majority of the working class blue collar vote who are rebelling against the Wall Street elite billionaire fat cats and hedge fund managers who back Hillary.

Where have you been? That is the whole point of the Trump movement, an anti-establishment populist rebellion against the elites.

'You don't get any more in with the elite than Trump.'

Then why are they all against him, including his own party, and why are they all voting for Hillary and why is George H W Bush voting for Hillary?

Flowers - 'The People' is anyone who wants a decent life and who is sick and tired of being 'people husbanded' by the decision makers for their benefit. Take Obamacare. People are posting up their bills on Twitter. They are being bankrupted by these bills. Why? Is it because medical care has gone up 30%+ in a single year? No. It's because after taxpayer money was used to bail out the shareholders (billionaires) in 2008, the money is running out. Therefore, one final push to pay the shareholders (and their schemes, is, immigration) involves getting the middle class money. The 'shareholders' will always get paid first at everyone else's expense and that's not right. The 'shareholders' is why wars happen. Things are reaching their zenith now, possibly because people in the West are being bankrupted by the 'shareholders'. Trump didn't just spring up out of nowhere.

The majority of white women support Trump

No - they don't. Only white men. If it were white women only voting, Hillary would be a shoo in.

You are free to support the Establishment instead of Trump

You make it sound as though Trump is on the side of the people. He isn't. He's on the side of Trump. You make it sound as though the Establishment was a worse bogeyman than the fascist madman.

Did history pass you by? Do you think life under Hitler or Stalin was a whole bundle of fun?

"We the People choose Trump"

That is what it is all about as tee-shirts and mugs and stickers and flags all say. There aren't any of those for Hillary

trumpnation.com/shop.html#!/Trump-Nation-We-The-People-T-shirt/p/63410093/category=16526513

claig - Do you think the millions of people who support Trump and are going to make him the next President are stupid?

Yes, I do. Absolutely. Tick as pigshit or utterly corrupt.

'No - they don't. Only white men. '

The polls show that the majority of white women support Trump not Hillary. The BBC won't show it on the media, but that was the polls just a few months back.

'If it were white women only voting, Hillary would be a shoo in.'

You're wrong. Just a few montsh back, the polls said different

'You make it sound as though Trump is on the side of the people'

Of course he is, that is why millions of people have chosen to vote for him, that is his entire appeal that he is for the people against the elites. People aren't stupid, that is why they are voting for him.

'Do you think life under Hitler or Stalin was a whole bundle of fun?'

No, but what has that got to do with Trump?

'Do you think the millions of people who support Trump and are going to make him the next President are stupid?

Yes, I do. Absolutely. Tick as pigshit or utterly corrupt.'

Well no wonder you support Hillary. You are an elitist like her who looks down on millions of people.

"What do you think you represent?" If this had read "who...." I had a straighforward answer. Me.

As it stands, I think youre falling foul of believing we live in a concensus democracy. We dont. Nor do we live with a proportional representative election system...........So flowers, do you believe your view is that of the 'people'? Claigs views are held by far more than your comment suggests, and the irony is, denial of that, is producing seismic shockwaves through western 'democratic' politics.
When faced with a majority ruling, accepting in defeat an opposing view to your own, is indeed, the voice of 'we the people'.

"Poll: Donald Trump Up 1 Point over Hillary Clinton with White Women, 16 Points with Men

Although likely Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton holds a slight lead over presumptive Republican nominee Donald Trump in a new Quinnipiac University poll match-up, the real estate mogul is up one point over Clinton with white women and continued to score better than her with men of all backgrounds.

In a one-on-one matchup, Trump beats Clinton with white men by 34 percent. With white women, Trump leads Clinton by one point, 41 to 40 percent, inside the margin of error."

www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/06/01/poll-donald-trump-up-1-point-over-hillary-clinton-with-white-women-16-points-with-men/

Getting crowds of people to chant that someone should be locked up (without even any coherent charge, let alone a trial and conviction) is a pretty totalitarian gesture. That's why a comparison to Hitler or Stalin might be made.

I don't actually think Trump is a fascist. I think he's driven by ego and love of publicity. He doesn't have anything much by way of a policy agenda. It's made up on the fly. I don't see any ideology, whether on the side of the angels or the devils. I think he'd be a time-wasting joke in power.

'Getting crowds of people to chant that someone should be locked up (without even any coherent charge, let alone a trial and conviction) is a pretty totalitarian gesture. '

No it is not. It means they think she is a crook, they know all about her corruption and they won't be locking her up without a trial, they mean mean send her to court and then if she is guilty, lock her up, just as we say bankers who rigged markets should be tried and locked up.

' I think he's driven by ego and love of publicity. He doesn't have anything much by way of a policy agenda. It's made up on the fly. I don't see any ideology, whether on the side of the angels or the devils.'

You are right with that. He is a businessman, a pragmatist, a doer, he has no ideology, which is why he is both left and right and used to be a Democrat and used to support Hillary. But where you are wrong is that because he is a businessman, he will sort the country out. His ideology is America First and that means scrapping the free trade deals that the billionaires and Wall Street want and that Hillary supports or supported and that Bill signed in, and to bring jobs back and make America great again by ending wars and building a booming economy. That's it and that's what the majority will want and that's why he will be Presiident.

He's a shit businessman, claig. He just plays one on a reality tv show.

claig, what are you going to do when you find out that Trump is just a self-serving bastard?

He doesn't give a toss for your 'We the people' crap! He's a complete narcissist who's using you and those like you to serve his own ambitions.

If he does become president, he'll toss you all overboard in a heartbeat.

I'm sorry, but I think you're naive in the extreme! You seem to believe every word Trump says, but:

"Assessing the truthfulness of the 2016 candidates’ campaign statements, PolitiFact recently calculated that only 2 percent of the claims made by Trump are true, 7 percent are mostly true, 15 percent are half true, 15 percent are mostly false, 42 percent are false, and 18 percent are “pants on fire.” Adding up the last three numbers (from mostly false to flagrantly so), Trump scores 75 percent. The corresponding figures for Ted Cruz, John Kasich, Bernie Sanders, and Hillary Clinton, respectively, are 66, 32, 31, and 29 percent." (The Atlantic)

For a bit of light relief,

Trump in one word.

''Getting crowds of people to chant that someone should be locked up'

Trump doesn't start it or lead it. The crowds of thousands have ben shouting "Lock her up" for months and months before Trump said anything. There are "Hillary for Prison" tee-shirts everywhere. A schoolgirl was barred from school for wearing one. Trump didn't start it. This is a reaction of the people to her corruption.

Some people in England say that Blair is a war criminal but no one shouts it out because they don't feel it strongly, but in America many, many people strongly feel that she is a crook.

Farage was shocked by the shouts of "Lock her up" at the Republican Convention but that just shows that Farage doesn't really understand the people and what is really happening

"Yes, I do. Absolutely. Tick as pigshit or utterly corrupt." Thankfully, 'we the people' disagree entirely with this personally insulting comment, along with all the other 'nazi' 'racist' insults aimed at any person who is exercising their legitimate right to vote freely for any candidate they so wish, for any reason they see fit, in a legitimate election. Freely. Thats the word that will bury Hilary, just as it buried the EU.

'Getting crowds of people to chant that someone should be locked up (without even any coherent charge, let alone a trial and conviction) is a pretty totalitarian gesture. '

Oh the irony, in light of guantanamo..........

'claig, what are you going to do when you find out that Trump is just a self-serving bastard?'

It won't matter because I am always positive, that's life, I have seen enough disappointments, I look forward to the next positive future. I thought Blair was good in 1997 and I was soon disappointed. That is how it goes.

'You seem to believe every word Trump says'

No I don't. I don't believe he will ban all Muslims or deport all illegal immigrants and maybe he won't even lock Hillary up, maybe they will spare her because of the shock and embarrassment to the entire US system, but I do believe I understand Trumps fundamental intention to help the people and that is good enough for me because I know the rest of them won't.

Farage was shocked by the shouts of "Lock her up" at the Republican Convention but that just shows that Farage doesn't really understand the people and what is really happening

Or maybe he does have a shred of decency after all.

'Or maybe he does have a shred of decency after all.'

He always had decency but I was disappointed with him. He doesn't understand what is happening and why. It is not a game, the people are not mucking about and Trump is teh real deal. The rest of UKIP are useless. Paul Nuttall doesn't support Trump etc. They don't get it, they don't understand the revolution that is happening right under their nose.

and maybe he won't even lock Hillary up

you do understand that the executive function of the US government can't "lock people up" It is not the French revolution here. The judicial arm of the government will ultimately decide whether any person in the US is locked up.

If you think Trump as president has the power to lock Mrs. Clinton up then you are ... well just as stupid as you have appeared in every one of your posts.

By the way, I can see why you voted for Blair. The man who removed the right to silence from British common law.

'you do understand that the executive function of the US government can't "lock people up"'

Of course I understand that. But Trump has the power to appoint a prosecutor to reopen the investigation and there will be no Obama DOJ to help Hillary. It will depend on how far Trump will want to go to clean up the system and how many and asscoaites and pay for play donors he will want to go after.

' just as stupid as you have appeared in every one of your posts.'

but at least I am not condescending like you

Claig, I honestly don't know what has lead you to believe that Trump is going to go after the "pay for play donors" and the like. I understand and am quite intrigued by your incredibly consistent anti-establishment line (I think it's at heart a destructive passion, but I suspect you would think I was part of the problem). But I'm flummoxed as to why you think Trump will deliver your vision. Perhaps by the force of your own will?