Trump vs Clinton Round 2. Bigger debate than the last one.

[claig]

Round 2, Monday morning 2 am UK time.

Will "the real Trump" show up?

This is Trump not doing detail:
A string of bankruptcies.
Trump university fraud lawsuits.

some stomach turning stuff on cnn

I do find it interesting that this is the thing that is turning the republican tide against him. We finally found where their moral limit is. I did wonder.

The media too kitten.

True!

Trump has retweeted Juanita Broaddrick. I think that means that Trump will bring it all out tonight in the debate.

Interesting article here on Russia's involvement in the election, and indeed in their attempt to destabilise countries across the west both by funding the far right and using social media to spread pro-Putin/pro-Trump/anti-Clinton propaganda.

www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/10/seven-reasons-the-new-russian-hack-announcement-is-a-big-deal-214330

Yes, I suppose he could play the victim card. Which would be ironic in a number of ways.

Hmmm... as I understand it Broaddrick recanted her accusations twice under oath so this is just shit stirring.

Did I read correctly that the 13yr old Trump rape case has been filed again for the third time?

Claig You seem to think Trump is hiding some big revelation about the "elite"
e.g. that he will unmask them as shape-shifting lizards.

Trump is one of the elite.
One of the most unscrupulous and immoral.
He somehow managed to appear different by appealing to the ugliest prejudices - nationalism, racism, misogeny - and using his potty mouth.

Look at the entire history of what he has done to ordinary people:
his employees, small contractors, people conned by Trump Uni or his many other failed enterprises, judges who dare to apply the law, TV contestants - women & underage girls .....

Hi, BigChoc, good to see you again. How is it going in Germany?

The reason Trump is in this contest is to bring down the corrupt elite and that is the reason they are so desperate to stop him. We will see if Trump is able to do it or not tonight in the debate.

Trump said in his apology "Hillary Clinton and her ilk have been running this country into the ground" for decades. Trump is going to end it all, that is why he entered the race as an outsider.

Here is Rudy Giuliani, who is backing Trump

"Giuliani: It's 'insiders versus outsiders'

Top Donald Trump

adviser Rudy Giuliani said the ongoing internal struggle within the Republican Party over Trump's offensive remarks about women is a battle between establishment politicians and outsiders.

"This is basically the insiders versus the outsiders," he told CNN as he was leaving Trump Tower Saturday."

origin-nyi.thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/300047-giuliani-its-insiders-versus-outsiders

Bernie was a great champion of ordinary people vs the ruling oligarchy.

Clinton is a terrible candidate for the Democrats - a sleazy neocon - and only machine politics got her nominated.
If the Republican nominee was even a Dubya, then I'd hope the public would choose him and teach the Dems a lesson.

Howevere, Trump is maybe the worst ever candidate for a major US party; a vile human being who would spread his vileness deep into the US if he were President.
He is also an unstable narc, who could tantrum and start a major war that might take decades to unravel & repair.

So, excavating the slogan from the French Presidential elections in iirc 2002:

"vote for the crook, not the fascist"

If you had to put a face to the phrase "corrupt elite" it would be Trump's face.

Hi Claig Germany put out the welcome mat, thanks

'Hi Claig Germany put out the welcome mat, thanks'

Prima. Sehr, sehr gut. Sprechen Sie Deutsch?

ja aber .... working language in science is English anyway !

Farage thinks its normal for alpha males to talk like this (but what does he know about aloha males ?):

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/09/nigel-farage-defends-donald-trump-over-alpha-male-boasting

Nope. This won't sink him because if, as a voter, you subscribe to the anti-globalist agenda, the primary goal is to have someone/something deliver it, and that could be the devil incarnate himself. Ditto for Hillary, of course (anti globalist agenda). He was right when he said that he could do anything and he'd still get voters, although I'm not sure that he realises why this is the case. Everything that he's done is not dissimilar to other powerful people's behaviour. It all resides one step down from the ultimate goal (same for Hillary with her 'issues') and as such, can be dismissed as boys' locker room stuff in a society which is misogyny, racism and other nasty-stuff tolerant. It's a higher order battle (people vs kleptocratic governments). It doesn't even matter that he's 'one of them' because he doesn't want what they want. I've increased my bet on his winning week on week, and will do so again later today

He was right when he said that he could do anything and he'd still get voters, although I'm not sure that he realises why this is the case.

I do think this is right, and also about him not really understanding it. Shy Trumps just got shyer but they'll still vote for him.

I don't understand Nigel Farage. Why defend this talk? Why? It just joins in with the media take that this is what matters with voters. This will not matter as much as CNN etc think it matters. In fact the more they make of it, the more people will say 'enough already - why are they spending so much time on this' which leads straight to the 'Trump is a bullied outsider' narrative, which is obviously and massively a win for him, every time.

'I've increased my bet on his winning week on week, and will do so again later today'

What are the odds please, fourmummy? I think he will beat the Establishment and win.

Scott Adams, Dilbert creator, has bailed on Trump, but still thinks Trump will win.

"But while Trump will undoubtedly miss this crucial endorsement, Adams maintained his optimism about The Donald’s chances this November. “My prediction of a 98% chance of Trump winning stays the same,” he wrote."

www.vocativ.com/366266/dilbert-creator-bails-on-trump/

The odds are terrible: 4/1 against. However, I'm basing my decision on the following:

• the normalisation of heterosexism in our culture (men are expected to be sexually demanding, women are not. Given this 'normal' behaviour, what's a little force?). We might make a lot of noise about sexual transgressions but in fact, these are not only tolerated but expected (cf Farage, although he's defending this behaviour when he should be highlighting it as such). We know that we tolerate these behaviours because they keep on happening, we have set up lots of organisations and agencies to 'deal' with them and we have incorporated them into the fabric of our everyday life (teach our children about it). We repeatedly see sexist abuse of power in our politicians. Although noisy, the narrative surrounding Trump's transgressions will come to nothing because nobody much cares about the sexualisation and sexual abuse of women (it's expected). Ditto racism. Hillary, on the other hand, is viewed as having transgressed further because lies, accepting bribes from 'the enemy' (ME despots: consider Blair), underhand machinations and getting mega-rich in an obviously non-legit manner while aligning herself with 'ordinary people' are all far worse than sexism and racism (which are pedestrian by comparison) or even Trump's straightforward honesty around his mega-wealth ("I revel in being a rich bastard"). She has also transgressed the boundaries of gender expectation. Women are not meant to do what she has done. She'll be viewed more negatively because she's 'not of her gender'.
• Shy Trumpers will never admit to their allegiance because to do so will cast them as sexist, racist and everything else that is bad.This is why polls are consistently wrong.
• People want to say "stuff it" to the globalists after years of being jostled about, agitated and hassled, and they need an abrasive, acerbic, vile character in order to deliver that message. The 'stuff it' has to be delivered in this manner. They don't want to send a diplomatic, considerate and thoughtful riposte. It has to be bitter and hate-laden because that's how they feel. Trump fits the bill perfectly.

Yes, why is Farage defending it?

Worse that that, he's saying women speak like this as well. Just deflecting and being an arse at the same time.
How many of us has ever said we just grope men by the balls when they are attractive? Or that just go for a kiss regardless, and take men out to bed them when we are married or they are?

The only defence is that he was boasting, rather than having actually done those things (even though it's likely that he did, considering reports).

I'm guessing he'd like to be like Trump.

There is no need to even try to justify. Why bother? It's in the sewer.

Yes, not defence as such, rather making it look less bad. There is a difference between saying and doing things, to be fair.
I'm convinced that he has done them, no doubt in my mind, but the only way out for them is to try and convince the electorate that it was stupid boasting (for whatever reason) and that he really regrets it (when in fact he just regrets being caught).

On a side note, I'm guessing Melania has an iron clad pre-nup. But suspect she knows he cheats when he can.

I'd just like to know Ivanka's honest opinion.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/09/nigel-farage-donald-trumps-lewd-remarks-are-alpha-male-boasting/

Another link. Of course Nigel thinks it's OK to treat women like shit. As he explains , if we're being honest it's just what men like him do. Does that mean he has done the same himself? If not, why would he consider this normal behaviour? At the very least we should know who is role models are...FFS he's still on the politician payroll!

But Nigel always is/does what he says on his tin: whether it's straightforward lies, racism, xenophobia, gender discrimination, normalizing anti-social behaviour it's all about divisive shit-stirring and treating people like rubbish. All the same brand of crap.

It surprises me not one little bit that he's come out in support of a man boasting about sexual assault, because he really is a disgusting excuse for a human being. IMHO.