Anyone else torn over Corbyn coup

[RoseDeGambrinus]

My Facebook is full of outrage at MPs overriding party members and yes I can see it's anti-democratic in that sense. But on the other hand I think it's unfair to brand the shadow cabinet members now resigning as Blairite plotters. I think many of them are just honestly fed up with his rather half-hearted Remain campaigning and don't think he has a chance of winning a possibly imminent general election. Whatever happens it's going to tear the Labour party apart. Just so depressing.

I am responding as a voter not an activist.

Eagle is already facing calls of deselection by her own constituency because they back Corbyn and are furious with this.

My guess is Eagle won't be the final challenger, she's being pushed through to decide whether or not Corbyn gets automatically named on the leadership ballot or not. Then we will see Owen Smith, Yvette Cooper (facepalm) et al come forward as challenger.

Fucking monumental waste of navel gazing time while our country is in crisis. They could not have timed this more wrongly and have misjudged public mood.

You don't want to mess with angry voters or angry activists (not much difference between either in our times).

They could not have timed this more wrongly and have misjudged public mood.

The public 'mood' will be even worse of there is a snap GE and Labour lose many seats. (Which if Corbyn stays we will)

Piglet I think you're confusing Eagle's CLP with 'Corbyn supporting sites'.

Bakewell 'nitwit with a Palestinian obsession' isn't measured language to most people. It implies heightened emotion.

I actually don't have a strong opinion on annual deselection. I was just pointing out that Bakewell's concern about unsuitable candidates is a risk with the current system too. I'm a bit old-fashioned, I prefer political debate to be about facts rather than emotion; policies rather than personalities (it is a genuine shame that Angela couldn't point out a single policy difference between herself and Corbyn when interviewed by Andrew Neill. That would have been a perfect opportunity to describe her new vision for the party and to give party members something concrete to vote upon.)

Public mood will be exuberant once JC wins the leadership challenge with every chance of winning a GE as number patterns prove he will.
Times have changed.

No for me it is weariness at pressure group politics. I'd say something pithy about lifting the ban on foxhunting it doesn't mean I'm invested emotionally.

Public mood will be exuberant once JC wins the leadership challenge with every chance of winning a GE as number patterns prove he will.

Times have changed.

Not that much they haven't.

If he wins the party will split.

Thing is, Corbyn is leader NOW. No one is stopping him from leading NOW and from holding this ridiculous Tory government to account, but he isn't leading. That is not the fault of the PLP. He just isn't a leader. He should be destroying the Tories but he isn't. His supporters cannot blame the PLP, media etc ... for ever. He is the leader so he should lead. He should show the PLP and the country that he can lead, even in difficult circumstances because god knows, the circumstances will always be difficult for any Labour leader.

Happyon
No one is stopping him from leading now

Did you not notice the timed resignations and vote of no confidence and PR smear campaign against Corbyn?! He is being constantly pulled into meetings demanding he resigns by Blairite PLP and you think he isn't prevented from leading?

This is an inparty deliberate move by right wingers to disable and destroy a left winger with any chance of power.

He is being silenced and undermined every step of the way. It's patently obvious.

He is being constantly pulled into meetings demanding he resigns by Blairite PLP

Many of the resigning MPs are as far from Blairite as he is! Lisa Nandy, Lou Haig, Jess Phillips, Owen Smith, Karl Turner to name but a few.

It's incredibly difficult to lead people who don't want to be led.
When JC became leader, I said to DH at the time, I don't see how one man can turn the tide of where Labour was going under Blair.
I could take grim satisfaction about the fact I was right and that the PLP was never going to let Labour shift to where JC, and the membership who voted for him, wanted it to be.
However, I am actually sickened at this approach of holding an elected leader hostage to the opinions of MPs (not their CLPs; not the Unions; not the membership). I don't subscribe to this notion that MPs get to dictate and to ignore the membership. It's also started a horrible trend with the Tories not threatening to create a breakaway party if they don't get the result they want in their leadership contest ie May.
It surprises me that people who believe in democracy are not more concerned at these attempts to deliberately subvert democracy but I can clearly see that for some, it's more important that they personally stay in power than their party is representative.
I genuinely don't understand why anyone interested in politics or democracy is supporting any of this. And no-one has explained it. What I've found instead is a lot of repetition of media soundbites: ' he's not a leader' (well, actually he is and if what you mean is you prefer top/down, machismo leadership then that's a different critique) 'he's unelectable' (this man who you tried desperately to keep away from the leadership but won the leadership election and has led the party to by-election victories).

I don't like this post-fact-based politics that we are slipping into.
However since so many (or perhaps just influentially vocal pressure groups and the PLP as someone put it above) seem ok with this situation maybe it would be for the best if Labour split and the Tories split.
It would make it blatantly obvious who held the support of the electorate. And wouldn't it be interesting if that wasn't the same as the ones who hold the support of Dacre and Murdoch? Although admittedly the inane repetition of PLP soundbites means I'm not holding out much hope.

That doesn't stop him from dealing with the media, from telling us what his policies are, from standing up for himself like a grown up rather than having DA and LM do his talking for him. I don't like John McDonell but at least he seems to have grown into his job a little since being appointed. JC has not, not at all.

I'm a party activist, and from the left of the party. I have no love for Blair or any of his lot. But that doesn't blind me to the fact that JC is useless. He's got to stop blaming everyone else for this as he was useless even before his shadow cabinet resigned.

I can see why he wants to hold on, I really can. And I suspect he'll stay and he'll win the leadership vote, and Labour will go on to a complete electoral wipeout in the next general election. The JC wing will blame the PLP and the media while the country is further destroyed by the Tories. I despair.

Yes, Winnie, I find all that really difficult too. It's a horrible situation. But I don't think of the PLP (not most of them anyway) as being out to get JC right from the beginning. Obviously some of them were never going to support him, but I think most would have gone along with anyone who looked to be leading the party towards some kind of cohesion. JC never looked like that. How could he? The problem is that he's managed to alienate the rest of them, even previous supporters, by being useless.

I get that the PLP can't dictate to the party, but they also can't keep on keeping on when they can see that Labour is heading towards a cliff while the country is shafted.

That doesn't stop him dealing with the media

The media who are intent to undermine him, you mean? That media?

You think having to employ an entirely new shadow cabinet does not distract from your job somewhat?

He was far from useless before being elected as leader by an unprecedented majority in leading the anti-war coalition and other massive achievements never mentioned in right wing media.

JC is finding his feet after Chilcot and rightly too.

JC is finding his feet after Chilcot and rightly too

If he is (I don't think he is. It's just his 'territory') it's too little too late. Vote of no confidence done.

I really like him. & have always been a labour voter but became a party member so I could vote for him if needed. He's the only person that seems to be on the side of the working poor.
Yes there are some things he says I don't agree with but on the whole he seems to be the only politician that is genuine at the moment.
It's heartbreaking what's happening to the labour party & I feel that the mps really ought to be ashamed of themselves. Instead of uniting tearing themselves apart. If labour lose at the next election it won't be Jeremy corbyn fault it will be the fact that in a time of the country need. They fell apart.
As for the people who say he'd not a string leader...The fact he hasn't bowed to pressure &stood down shows an absolute strength

Yes of course it's hard. I'm not stupid. I feel for him and like many JC supporters, I also want the party to put forward a more left wing agenda. But I don't think he's the person to do it.

He has to rise above media hostility. He has to show electors that he can. Think of the utter shit Milliband had to deal with from the media. It was appalling. But doing that as the leader of the Labour Party is part of the job. It's not going to get any easier.

What are his policies? How does he think the country will look under a JC led government? What will he tackle first?

The odd thing is I know what JC's policies are but I don't know what Angela Eagle's are. Andrew Neil gave her every opportunity to explain them. Alastair Campbell has been asked about the coup's policies too, to no avail.

And in the week of Chilcot, how can it seem sensible moral, just, responsible to propose a candidate who voted for the Iraq war? imo that seems breathtakingly insensitive or/and arrogant.

Happyon what do you think will happen next? I'm struggling to see how they think they could reconcile the two sides of Labour. And I'm thoroughly perplexed that Tessa Jowell is briefing against Eagle's CLP. Do you think Eagle will be parachuted into a different seat at the next GE?

The odd thing is I know what JC's policies are

Really? They are soundbites.

The Labour policy is to renew Trident. How will he vote as leader of the party?

Winnie, I really don't know and that's part of the problem. I don't know much about Angela eagle either and I agree that someone who voted for the war should not have been put forward. It's a horrible mess and I think a tragedy for the party and the country.

I suspect that Corbyn will stand and win, will go to a general election and lose. Then, who knows? Perhaps the LP has to destroy itself every 40 years or so. Thing is, the Conservative Party is just as much of a broad church, full of bitter rivalries. But look at the differences. The worst Tory PM we have ever seen, who has made a catastrophic error of judgement, his party in seeming tatters, riven with rivalries, the careers of many of his presumptive heirs ruined. And yet, they have got through their leadership battle efficiently. I don't like May, but her election means a brighter spotlight on the LP and her Party moving on from the disaster they have brought in this country.

I think a tragedy for the party and the country.
yy I completely agree with this. And the fact that Cameron seems to be getting off scot-free from both the media and his party.It's as though they are already starting to whitewash his premiership and safeguard his legacy.
I can't help but sigh at the fact this should have been the perfect opportunity for Labour to fill the void but instead they opted for a coup. If you deliberately wanted to sabotage a party's history, ethos and electability, you couldn't plan it better.

I can't help but sigh at the fact this should have been the perfect opportunity for Labour to fill the void but instead they opted for a coup.

They can't with Corbyn. That is the point.

I welcomed Corbyn initially, thought that although his politics made him unelectable he would still be a strong voice of opposition, but he failed to come across as strong. Unelectable and ineffective - he has to go.

Excellent post by Winnie 11:32.
I too am a left-leaning member. I voted Corbyn and will do again. Am angry with the way the PLP have acted over the last 10 months.

I believe Eagle is a stalking horse until the real candidate is revealed. They won't put up a candidate thay voted for Iraq. I would guess they will put up someone like Umunna. They have made it clear they don't care what members think. Many have been dismissed as rabble. MPs such as Streeting constantly sneering via social media. It really is a mess.

At the end of the day Corbyn was there for us to elect. He was undermined from first day. Especially by people like Chris Leslie. If they had given him 1 or 2 years with full backing many of us JC supporters would have accepted this challenge. But the sheer bullying and authoritarianism is disgraceful.

There is probably more going on behind the scenes with the leaders than we will ever know.