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Original poster

with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

999 replies

ssd · 20/07/2014 23:22

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

OP posts:
Alisvolatpropiis · 21/07/2014 19:09

Not a country full of people he wanted to eradicate.

The Israeli's are not being governed by Hitler. I do not think what is going on is comparable to the holocaust.

That isn't to say it isn't horrific, it is. But they are different and not every single thing relating to actions taken by Jewish people needs to be compared to the Holocaust.

topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 19:25

ICanHearYou - did you miss my post about collective responsibility being at the root of all the problems?

In what way are Israeli Jews - many of whom were ethnically cleansed from ancient communities in other Middle Eastern countries and whose families have never had any links with Europe at all - collectively responsible for everything that White Men have ever done?? Shock

Seriously, you're not doing your argument any favours at all. I'm sure there are lots of very good reasons why the world should feel sympathy with the Palestinian cause, but all Jews being to blame for everything bad that any White European Man has ever done is really not one of them. Shock

topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 19:27

And since when are all Jews white? Jews are Semitic as are Palestinians - we're all as white - or non-white as each other.

That is one of the most breath-takingly illogical posts I've ever read on the conflict, ICanHearYou.

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 19:27

Are Irish people White Europeans?
How about Poles and Russians?

wordsmithsforever · 21/07/2014 19:30

spongeypop - that link really needs a "deeply upsetting" tag.

Also: I noticed one of the Palestinian images looks like its been badly photoshopped (the girls drawing on shells).

There's also a note from Aljazeerah that it doesn't vouch for the content's authenticity.

To be clear, I am, as I've said, horrified by the events of this week but I think one needs to be careful of sources on this subject. I would like to look at the truth, the whole truth, in this debate and of course some sources have an agenda rather than the truth (which again doesn't mean that the authenticated images we've seen this week are anything less than appalling).

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 19:32

I haven't suggested that Israel is responsible for all the actions of white men.

I have pointed out that due to a white man oppressing and killing people another group of (mainly) white people have been given a piece of land with which to oppress and kill people.

Its very illogical, that is true, but it is what is happening.

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 19:37

All that I can agree with there is that it is very illogical.

MNHQ
EllenMumsnet · 21/07/2014 19:42

Evening all.

We have deleted a post that was reported, that we also felt crossed the line. Subsequently, that post has been copied and commented on, and although it might seem a bit nonsensical to allow it to be reproduced in other posts, we'll leave these responses up as we don't want to stifle debate.

Trust this is acceptable to all - please be mindful of the Guidelines even though this is clearly a very emotive topic Thanks

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 19:43

So you disagree that the majority of Jews in Israel are white?

I think you need to do some research.

topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 19:50

I haven't suggested that Israel is responsible for all the actions of white men.

I have pointed out that due to a white man oppressing and killing people another group of (mainly) white people have been given a piece of land with which to oppress and kill people.

Its very illogical, that is true, but it is what is happening.

Er...that totally contradicts your previous point, ICanHearYou - that Hitler would have been a big fan of the Jews getting a homeland in Israel. As anyone who is not a nutter knows, Hitler was NOT a big fan of the Jews getting their own homeland. In fact, his views shared rather a lot in common with some of the more unsavoury elements in Gaza and elsewhere, that would like to see Jews wiped out entirely. But this is hardly news.

SamG76 · 21/07/2014 19:55

Icanhearyou - I don't think "white" is an exact term, so research wouldn't help. The majority of Israelis are Sephardi, so descended from refugees from Arab countries. Many of them are much the same "colour" as Palestinians, which is why your argument is a particularly silly and offensive one.

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 19:58

Wrong, most Jews in Israel are from America and Europe, as pointed out in the link I posted.

wordsmithsforever · 21/07/2014 20:08

Jewish looking Jews? Sorry, I think that's offensive.

topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 20:10

And the Jews from Europe are not 'white' either - my family lived in Germany for hundreds of years, yet I am regularly asked if I am Pakistani, from the Middle East, from Spain etc. I tell them my family come from Germany, sometimes, just to see the reaction of disbelief. Grin

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 20:12

Most Jews in Israel are actually from Israel, having been born there...

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 20:19

It is in my book too, Wordsmith.

HauntedNoddyCar · 21/07/2014 20:24

'from America' isn't really useful is it? It's not going to be much of a history in America. They went there from?

trufflesnout · 21/07/2014 20:27

And the Jews from Europe are not 'white' either

Some are, my heritage is Russian and my ancestors are all "white looking" with Jewish traits

topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 20:40

What is 'white'? As others have said, it's a bit meaningless. I'm sure I must have some white European ancestors - because it would be a bit weird if there'd been no intermarriage at all - but then equally, you just have to take one look at me to see I don't come from totally white European stock. But trying to label me as white or non-white or mixed race seems ridiculous and unnecessary - I'm Jewish. I don't look a jot more white than your typical Palestinian - but I'd be mighty surprised if s/he self-identified as black either.

Have I stepped into S Africa of 30 years ago, where we all need to identify with our supposed colour classification?

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 20:43

Not at all, I think it is just important to step out of your privilege for a minute and see how all this looks from the otherside.

the only people who think colour doesn't matter are those with the privilege I am afraid. There is so much racism in the world and oppression of people.

I see Israel as an example of white men stirring up trouble I really do.

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 20:54

What do you see as the role of those Jews who emigrated to Israel from Ethiopia then?

trufflesnout · 21/07/2014 21:03

I only said my family were white Jews because you said European Jews aren't white...

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 21:07

The role I see of all people is that we spread peace not war.

The only reason Hamas is attractive to the people of Palestine is because Israel are SUCH barstards, they could do so much with the money and weaponry they have to focus on defence and support for Palestine not war.

We live in a society were we commend men who went and 'fought' in the Iraq war which left an entire country of people (millions of people) without clean running water and sanitation.

It needs to stop and condoning the actions of Israel is not going to make it stop.

I am British and when someone attacks in my name it haunts me and I feel I have to speak up about it and do what I can to change it. I cannot understand how the Jewish people don't feel similarly because that is just who I am.

I disagree with the morality of the placement of Israel and I don't think it 'atoned' for the second world war, I think it was an excuse to create a whole world of shit and it is not right, it will never be right.

I am against the oppression and imprisonment of people, I am against the deaths of children. Israel has the money and the power to change the status quo and they don't. They just keep bombing, keep igniting the hatred and then wonder why people don't feel sorry for them.

greenbananas · 21/07/2014 21:16

I can't read the whole thread, is too upsetting, so please forgive me if this post is out of context.

I was raised as an evangelical Christian. In my church youth group, we were taught that this conflict would be the beginning of the "end times".

Maybe some deep south fundamentalist sort of Christians believe it's okay to sanction what Israel are doing because it's "all God's will" or some such rubbish.

Personally, I feel that there's no excuse for what Israel are doing. I do believe that we are in the beginning of the end times... and that we have a world-changing bloody war to look forward to.

My Muslim neighbour was in tears on the school run the other day. She told me stories (from her friends on Facebook) that I won't repeat on here because they will haunt your dreams as they have haunted mine - things that have happened to little children the age of my own baby, things of unimaginable cruelty that no horror film producer would ever think of putting on the screen. I hope those stories aren't true, but I think they probably are...

Other (devout and lovely) Muslim neighbours have been to Gaza on relief missions over the last few years. They have met members of Hamas, and their verdict was "these people have nothing but they are very caring men of great faith".

Who am I to judge? I know nothing about it, but just offer this up for what it is worth.

I remember being told in history that if we allocated land according to ancient claims like the Jews claiming Jerusalem, the whole boundaries of the world would change...

Just because something is fulfilling ancient prophecy doesn't make it right. If we see injustice, then we should speak out against it, even if the results are inevitable in the end.

I just keep seeing the face of my neighbour in tears, her children all sick at heart because she is so upset, and I keep remembering the horrible images of what she told me - stuff that has not been reported on the news - they only give figures of how many children killed, not the dreadfully upsetting details.. and my neighbour said, "they are doing this to us because we are Muslim"

Backinthering · 21/07/2014 21:18

I'm utterly shocked that anyone could support Israel's current actions.
They are remorselessly slaughtering women, children, babies... blowing up hospitals where terrified refugees and the wounded are sheltering.
Then they lie and lie and lie some more. So easy to write off an oppressed people as "terrorists", and saying that Israel has the right to defend itself, whilst ignoring the fact it's "defending" itself from an impoverished, terrified population in an open-air prison.
Israel is currently in the grip of extreme right-wing hysteria. It absolutely is an apartheid state.
Anyone that supports it's current actions is supporting child murder.