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with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

999 replies

ssd · 20/07/2014 23:22

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

OP posts:
SamG76 · 21/07/2014 17:29

Chairmanwow - while the Egyptians may not be fighting in Gaza, they have sentenced hundreds of Brotherhood supporters to death after a trial lasting about 2 hours altogether. I must have missed the huge demonstrations against this terrible injustice.

wordsmithsforever · 21/07/2014 17:30

ChairmanWow: I grew up in apartheid South Africa. Throughout my childhood, I was told/taught that "our boys" were going into the townships to root out terrorists to keep us (whites)safe. Then when I was 15, it was time for some of my close male friends who then 18 to be conscripted. They then told me, absolutely horrified, exactly the kind of stories you see in those IDF testimonies. As it turns out, our government had been lying through its teeth to us. The purpose of "our boys" going into the townships was to not find terrorists but to terrorise - to keep any resistance under control. Many of my male friends left the country soon after they finished university. Many of them were psychologically scarred by what they had witnessed - God knows what scars those who were in the townships at the time still bear.

I have no faith in this current extremist right wing Israeli government. I do not believe they are interested in peace. I am horrified by the numbers of children killed this last week. There is no excuse.

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 17:30

Egypt has cut off Gaza as part of its own ongoing effort to wipe out the Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas). Egypt will not hesitate to deal in whatever way it feels necessary with any threat from the MB and is in the process of suppressing the organisation and destroying its influence in Egypt. A court recently confirmed the death sentence after quick trials for 183 MB members for involvement in a bombing in 2013. Originally 683 MB members were sentenced to death. Mohammed Morsi, MB member and former president, was ousted by the Army last year. He will be tried for incitement of murder and violence, and for espionage. If I were a betting woman, I would put money on the possibility that at least one of those charges will stick.

And yes, war is ugly.

Uptheairymountain · 21/07/2014 17:32

Agree with numerous posters on this thread: given their history, of course Jewish people will defend themselves against threats (real and perceived) as strongly as they can. I would, in their situation.

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 17:34

And furthermore, ChairmanWow, what Israel is doing now is being done in the context of what is happening in Egypt, using the window of opportunity allowed by current Egyptian policy towards the MB. It is not a matter of 'comparing Egypt for not opening its borders to Israel which is now bombing hospitals, care homes and kids'.

Israel has the tacit backing of Egypt, which is also trying to neutralise the MB/Hamas.

Egypt does not care about the people of Gaza or the West Bank.

PrivateBenjamin · 21/07/2014 17:35

Hamas are the ones who victimise the Palestinian people. They set off rockets from the roofs of schools, hospitals and old people's homes. The leaders of Hamas are safe in their bomb shelters 20 metres below the ground while drawing fire to the weakest in their society. Hamas don't care how many civilians are killed. Every civilian death makes Israel look bad so Hamas is happy to pay that price.

Also, Yasser Arafat was a billionaire when he died. How does a political leader of a tiny region of the middle east that doesn't have any oil become a billionaire?

There was a really good article about this on the Huffington Post website last week. I can't link to it from the app though.

DogCalledRudis · 21/07/2014 17:42

When you terrorise and oppress a nation for generations, no wonder they are not very friendly.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 21/07/2014 17:48

Ah, dog called rudis with your skinhead mien kampf loving husband. I wondered when you'd turn up.

Another one who 'wishes' Israel didn't exist, eh.

Mintyy · 21/07/2014 17:55

I am pleased to see mounting pressure from MPs of all parties on the Government to not simply stand back and allow Israel to continue their war crimes

topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 17:56

ChairmanWow-

The objection has been that Israel is deliberately trapping Gazans in some sort of giant prison camp, from which they cannot flee. Deliberately invidious comparisons are made to concentration camps. So I was trying to point out that actually Israel was not keeping them there, or in a position to keep them there. Plus much is written about how Israel prevents Gazans accessing food, water, building materials etc. Actually, the Egyptians are equally to blame for this. So if this is cited as an argument for why Hamas are firing rockets at Israel, one wonders why no rockets are fired at Egypt.

That's not in any way to deny that what is discussed in your links is upsetting. And that clearly things have been done (on both sides) that are dreadful and I wish as much as anyone that they had not happened.

But to resolve the matter, you need to recognise that neither side is evil and that the majority of people on both sides desire peace. Neither side is going to be more likely to listen if it is labelled as the source of all evil nor to lay down their weapons if it puts themselves at risk.

Wars end either by one side beating the other to a pulp and eventually after a huge number of deaths, one side gives in (eg the First World War) - not generally a quick or pleasant way for either side. Or likely to lead to a long-term, secure peace.

Or they end (relatively) peaceably, by both sides being prepared to forgive each other and trust each other (as in Indian Independence or the ending of apartheid or in N Ireland or the ending of Communism).

I'd hope that the situation in the Middle East can be resolved by Plan B not Plan A.

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 18:05

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topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 18:06

This article, by a Palestinian father who lost 3 children to Israeli bombs, sums up my views perfectly. And I hope no-one will accuse him of being unreasonably biased towards Israel.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/18/father-children-gaza-bloodshed-palestinians-israelis

wannabestressfree · 21/07/2014 18:11

Hamas use children as human shields and cause the deaths of their own people. Israel are by international law allowed to protect themselves and irradicate the weapons which are fired into their communities.

My Friends live a peaceful kibbutz lifestyle and have had their gates and lands bombed.

topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 18:15

ICanHearYou - read up on your history. That shows a shocking, shocking lack of knowledge of the real history, and of current events and attitudes.

Surely you know that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj Amin al-Husseini and the Iraqi prime minister Rashid Ali al-Gaylani very actively collaborated with the Nazis? Surely you are aware that their dislike of Jews and the desire to prevent a Jewish homeland in Israel was their main area of agreement?

Also, you are presumably aware that nowadays, Mein Kampf is a bestseller in the Palestinian territories?

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 18:18

the history is this

  • White European man oppresses and murders millions of people of colour and different cultures to himself
  • White Europeans are given land as 'pay back' for role of original White European man and use this land to terrorise, oppress and murder hundreds of thousands (and counting) people of colour and different countries to themselves.
bakingnovice · 21/07/2014 18:19

'Authors of their own misfortune? ' SamG that is a really horrendous statement. Some of the views on this thread are uncomfortable to read.

You can blame Hamas, human shields and tunnels but everyone can see the true horrors israel.is inflicting. I wonder if the apologists on this thread would have the same sentiments if your children were being killed or your local hospitals were being obliterated.

spongeypop · 21/07/2014 18:29

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topbanana1 · 21/07/2014 18:39

spongeypop - according to the link you posted, "Israeli Persecution of Palestinians Exceeded Nazi Germany Persecution of Jews in Time and Severity".

Scary that there are actually people who think this is "convincing".

babbas · 21/07/2014 18:47

I think it's scarier that apologists are justifying the genocide. Unbelievable.

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 18:55

ICanHearYou, I have read a lot of stupid posts on political and historical topics on MN but yours wins the boiled sweet for getting pretty much everything arse over ears:

To the contrary I bet Hitler would be pleased with Israel, after all, the bombing and oppression of people of colour by Europeans was one of his favourite things. Israel have just taken over where Hilter left off.

mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 18:58

ICanHearYou:

"the history is this

  • White European man oppresses and murders millions of people of colour and different cultures to himself
  • White Europeans are given land as 'pay back' for role of original White European man and use this land to terrorise, oppress and murder hundreds of thousands (and counting) people of colour and different countries to themselves."

That is so pie-eyed I don't know where to even start..

'White Europeans'?

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 18:59

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mathanxiety · 21/07/2014 19:00

'Jewish looking'?

You mean like the ones in Der Ewige Jude?

Alisvolatpropiis · 21/07/2014 19:04

Erm, being the raving Anti-Semite he was, it is rather unlikely that Hitler would have liked Israel. Gosh.

Ashkenazi Jews were European. European Jews are not a recent thing.

Also, what is "Jewish looking"? Unless dressed in religious wear I wouldn't know someone was Jewish just by looking at them.

ICanHearYou · 21/07/2014 19:06

A country that oppresses and murders people of colour? He'd have loved it.

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