with the terrible history Jews have, why is Israel behaving like this?

[ssd]

I would have thought they would be showing more compassion for a repressed minority but the opposite is happening

and Netanyahu saying they told the Palestinians to leave because they were going to be fired on...where the bloody hell would they go to?? IF THEY COULD GO AT ALL

Why the hell is anybody even bothering to engage with math?

Yes, the whole point of my post was that British rule in Ireland was not harsh enough.

Why should Israel take from British history the lesson that half measures will work against terror? They manifestly did not in Ireland or Palestine.

When it comes to terror, do you expect the British government to accord terrorists political status and not to try terrorists for the common or garden crimes of murder, etc?

Do you expect the British government to provide excellent and effective protection from terror for you and your family?

Because unlike you, math is making well thought out! logical arguments

Argh, where are all these exclamation marks coming from?

The hunger strikes were called off when the families of the last strikers defied the Provos and called a halt to the madness, Poppet.

Up to then, nobody in nationalist or Catholic communities had dared say a word against the Provos. So it was indeed a watershed.

Finally, a terrorist organisation found itself questioned by the people it claimed to lead and represent.

Finally it was forced to acknowledge that its grip on the community was broken, and its claim to represent the aspirations of the Catholic community was exposed for the lie that it was. In order to maintain power it was forced to seek real legitimacy and it took to the ballot box.

Gaza (along with the West Bank and East Jerusalem) is occupied Palestinian territory under international law, determined by the vast majority of the world, as well as the highest court in the world, the UN’s International Court of Justice.

Gaza cannot commit aggression against Israel, since Israel is in constant and continual commission of illegal aggression against Palestine by occupying it (illegally and sadistically blockading it and frequently committing terrorism against its civilians, including by targeting them with chemical weapons provided by US taxpayers – see “Rain of Fire” by Human Rights Watch). As documented by Amnesty Int’l, Human Rights Watch, and many others, Israel intentionally targets and murders civilians, including children, en masse.

Israel also kidnaps and tortures children, including by keeping them in outdoor cages, over night, in winter.

But, even ignoring international law and that Gaza is under illegal Israeli occupation, Gaza did not initiate this current round of violence; Israel did:
Western/US/Israeli propaganda says the violence started with the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli youths on June 12th. That is a lie:
On May 20th, the Israeli government murdered 2 unarmed Palestinian teens, one on video, and wounded a third.

The firing of pathetic scrap metal rockets from impoverished Gaza, which have killed no one, were in fact launched in response to earlier Israeli bombings, killings, assassinations, and arrests of Palestinians, including children.
Since the year 2000, Israel has killed 1,500 Palestinian children, while Palestinians have killed 132 Israeli children. That means Israel has killed over 1,000% percent more Palestinian children than vice versa.

www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/07/facts-us-citizens-need-know-israel-palestine.html

No Math you're wrong there, the British could have been as harsh as they wanted in Ireland and it would only have served to radicalise even more and swelled the ranks of the IRA.
The main difference between Ireland and Palestine is that the the Irish had Irish America on their side.

Ha, yes, the Israeli government frequently goes out kidnapping and torturing Palestinian children, sure. Straight after their cabinet meetings. Did you know they also drink the blood of Christian babies?

Oh dear Math, wrong again, the election results in Northern Ireland tell a very different story. Bobby Sands elected as an MP in '81, Sinn Fein has gone from strength to strength in terms of their electoral successes and now the second biggest party in Northern Ireland. To say that they lost the support of the communities is just ludicrous.
For them the war continues but not in the tradition way, they now have a significant foothold in the Republic of Ireland too. They have a strategy and it seems to be working for them.

thundersbum check your facts regarding Israel's incarceration of children and teenagers.

You could start with the UNICEF report.

Poppet, if the British were brutal in Ireland in, say, the 1890-1920 era, did their brutality crush Irish nationalism and lead Ireland to become a contented and loyal part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland? Or did the brutality and oppression have a different effect?

The Israeli forces do indeed take and detain children and mistreat them in jail. As young as 12.
I shouldn't think they drink Christian blood though, what an utterly mad comment.

No, my response was to the allegation that the Israeli government is personally abducting and killing children.

Please see my earlier comments re the actions of Israeli forces; I note nobody answered my previous questions

Sorry, what's with all the hair splitting? Do the IDF just act independently of the government then?

And the fact you think the ref to them drinking blood is an 'utterly mad comment' and don't see the context goes to my point of people being unaware of relevant history.

PJ British oppression would never have crushed Irish nationalism, you know the old saying "it's not those who can inflict the most, but those who can endure the most that will conquer".

yes, I was thinking that brutality and oppression tend to create hatred and violence. The reverse of what is needed in, for example, Palestine. No doubt there are some people who disagree.

Is there anyone willing to attempt an answer to my question Fri 25-Jul-14 19:03:17 ? no point in repeating it again.

Yes, because invading and then repeatedly trying to destroy Israel over a sustained period of time is pretty friendly, conciliatory behaviour.

Israel is the only state in the world where criticism of its actions invariably attracts in those same discussions an undercurrent of questioning its right to exist at all.

I don't want to shut down criticism - I don't by any means think Israel is perfect, it is often far from that - and I don't think criticism of Israel is anti-semitic per se. But I am disturbed by the undercurrent, which is undoubtedly anti-Semitic, and by the way Jews around the world are expected to have some kind of stance on Israel (usually preferably anti). It smacks a bit too much of "prove that you are one of the good Jews" to me. And that's anti-Semitic too.

Thunderbums, are you seriously trying to justify bombing UN schools, places of refuge, hospitals and old folks' homes by referencing anti-semitism? Do you think Israel is above all criticism, no matter how many babies and children are killed?

thunderbums yes it was an utterly mad comment, which I consider still to be foolish and inflammatory despite the fact that I've read up on the historical context and still disagree with you.
But I'm glad you've gone quieter on the modern day context, perhaps having googled the UNICEF report into Israel's treatment of children in detention.

Yes my point is that Israel can throw whatever they want, inflict as much as they want but they are really only serving to put off the inevitable. They will have to sit down and hammer out an agreement with Hamas, PO and anyone else who speaks for the Palestinian people.
The bloodshed only serves to breed hate and I'm sure Hamas have plenty queuing up take a shot at Israel. Someone has to break the cycle!

Tbh I can't be bothered arguing about what you call 'modern day atrocities' when you repeatedly ignore the context and the continuing atrocities perpetuated by Hamas. It is pointless.

Edam

I think perhaps that was a "yes"