Society: why has it gone and how do we get it back?

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

According to Wikipedia: "A society, or a human society, is a group of people related to each other through persistent relations, or a large social grouping sharing the same geographical or virtual territory, subject to the same political authority and dominant cultural expectations".

I don?t believe it exists anymore and this cannot be a good thing.

When did it go wrong?
How do we get is back?
Does it exist in parts of the UK?

individual human kindness, is not community either unless we are talking about a rather extraneous definition of the human community.

'a group of people does not a community make'

Then who makes a community? - A government?
It is people, it is a village, a group of football supporters who support their town, a county and a country.

A nation is a community of individuals. The bonds of their community strengthen the greater the crisis that faces them. United they stand, divided they fall. That is teh strength of community.

'asserting that the community makes the rules of culture, is misinformed. The powerful do this.'

The powerful are not more powerful than the people, because teh community of teh powerful is far smaller and far weaker tha teh community of teh people. When teh people rise up in community spirit, they overthrow a powerful Ceacescu in hours or days.

'individual human kindness, is not community'

It is kindness, but it stems from fellow feeling and sympathy which means suffering with i.e. together with which comes from a common feeling and a spirit of community

the more you say it, doesn't make it true. that there are kind people - yes of course. that there are pockets of community action - its true - i work with these people.

That we all come together in times of desperation in some nationalistic ideal war time spirit way to help each other out - is simply not true. and neither is it 'community' It's just Tory Mail propaganda.

People look out for their own interests first. Tory legacy.

A community is a group of individuals with common feeling or common purpose. The Labour Party is a community, sometimes referred to as the Labour family, with individuals united in a common vision

sympathy isn't community either

oh its a group now?

Not an individual

or the whole human race

I need some consistency to this argument

'People look out for their own interests first. Tory legacy.'

The farmers who sent potatoes to the miners didn't, and many of them would have been Tories.

In a crisis, people help each other out.

'sympathy isn't community either'

It emanates from a spirit of community, a spirit in commune with another. It is pathy or feeling with (i.e. sym) another and arises due to a fellow feeling of something in common with another. It is not community but teh spirit of community and that is teh spirit that strengthens when people are suffering or are in crisis.

It starts from an individual and a family and extends to a community and a nation. A community (of which a nation is one example) binds individuals together.

the farmers were indeed kind and good willed - that is not in itself community.

sympathy doesn't emanate from community spirit, it is an emotional reaction - a feeling

my first post stated that there are many definitions of community.

but there isn't an indigenous community spirit within the UK

'that is not in itself community'

It is not community, it is community spirit, it is making sacrifices for other people in teh community.

Where do you think sympathy comes from? A psychopath has no sympathy. They feel no commonality with another, there is no community for them.

What do you mean by indigenous?

sympathy - its a feeling - its not born out of community, unless we are talking about humanity as a whole.

community does not = britishness.

Community does not = Britishness, but Britain is a community

not the definition that we were discussing. In that there is a specific people in a specific location. yes. that community should not be confused with collective actions designed to make a difference in some way. completely different

That is possibly where we differ. Ther are all types of community. I believe that teh entire electorate is a community who express their will about how they wish to be governed. I don't believe that Labour voters are any better than Tory voters; I believe they are all equal members of the electoral community. I believe communities unite all races, creeds and classes, and I believe that the cohesion and community spirit of all communities rise, the more that those communities are under threat.

In an economic crisis, community spirit increases to meet the crisis. When things are going swimmingly, community spirit often declines since it is not as necessary as a human survival mechanism in those circumstances. But community spirit never dies, it remains latent and rises to the fore when it is needed.

Cometh the hour, cometh the man, Cometh the crisis, cometh the community.

no we do not differ in the definition of community.

we differ on the idea that 'war time spirit' is community

and separately, that this exists across the country. I think its right wing propaganda to condescendingly exclaim 'we're all in it together' we clearly aren't and that isn't community anyway

I believe that most of us "are in it together" and that we all form a community suffering the same austerity measures.

'I think its right wing propaganda to condescendingly exclaim 'we're all in it together' we clearly aren't and that isn't community anyway'

OK, so you're in it, but I'm not, because I happen to vote Tory, is that it?

i'm in what?

and who do i vote for?

'i'm in what?'

' I think its right wing propaganda to condescendingly exclaim 'we're all in it together' we clearly aren't'

Gordon Brown and you are in it together, and us Tories aren't, particularly Thatcherites? Us Tories don't lose our jobs and have our pensions cut and have our libraries closed? We're not 'in it', not suffering the same as you and Gordon Brown.

i am positive gordon brown isn't suffering and that richer people aren't suffering.

who they vote for - well i don't know

and that isn't community

Claig, your "cometh the crisis cometh the community" line puts me in mind of the Shock Doctrine