Society: why has it gone and how do we get it back?

[YoYoYoItsTillyMinto]

According to Wikipedia: "A society, or a human society, is a group of people related to each other through persistent relations, or a large social grouping sharing the same geographical or virtual territory, subject to the same political authority and dominant cultural expectations".

I don?t believe it exists anymore and this cannot be a good thing.

When did it go wrong?
How do we get is back?
Does it exist in parts of the UK?

But you and I are in a community. We are both suffering under the same austerity, we aren't rich, we pay the same petrol prices and feel the same effects of LIBOR fixing. And the worse it gets, the more we will have in common and the more both our community spirits will grow.

I really don't know whether to laugh or cry Claig.

You are a wind-up, yes?

There are lots of communities all over the UK. Just because you're not part of one doesn't mean there aren't any.

There is a distinct difference between urban communities and rural though, there are more, smaller communities in the city. There are also those that are excluded from the community or society for whatever reasons but that can happen anywhere.

I find in London the community groups tend to be headed up by people who are only involved so that they can have parties with their friends in the summer. We have a residents association that only runs 3 small roads, with two other groups for other roads and they all argue with each other about shared spaces.

Then there are the insecure social climbers who want to pretend they live in an exclusive area and subtly gate off their community by never looking in the eye of anyone that might not be middle class or white or slim or working or whatever.

I think the fact that people have to either work 3 jobs or be landed gentry (or retired banker) adds to the fact that there is pressure on the community spirit.

But I think things are better than they were in the 1980s, when leaving your community was seen as a good thing and encouraged - it seems that people aren't so desperate to 'better' themselves any more and value what really matters.

Politically speaking there is no society as civil society is held together by various types of contract rather than a common sense of duty.

URIndoors, I haven't read that book, but it does sound good. I think I will probably agree with a lot of it. I do believe that these crises are often deliberately created, as Naomi Klein also seems to think. I even think that teh austerity and financial collapse was deliberate in order for teh elite to push through austerity and cuts in living standards and pensions for all of us, our entire community.

But I will possibly disagree with Naomi Klein's solutions. But I will have to read teh book to find out.

'You are a wind-up, yes?'

No

i live in the same country - that doesn;t mean we have community spirit. in itself (living in the same country) isn't community which engenders community spirit and community action. you are mixing two different things

Sorry Claig, I'm now totally confused by you. I don't see how you can on the one hand talk about "the elite" pushing through austerity etc and still describe yourself as a Tory-voter. Your discourse seems quite conflicted. Have I missed something?

We live in the same country, see the same things and suffer similar cuts. The worse things get, the more likely we both are to seek a community solution, to vote for people who have a community spirit, because our community spirits will get closer, even though you possibly live in the North and I live in the South, the distance between us will decline due to the common crisis.

'Have I missed something?'

I think Tony Blair, who went to the Eton of the North, Fettes, and Oxford, is just as much an elite as the Tories. But I don't think either of them are the real elite, and both of them react to circumstances out of their control.

I am a Daily Mail reader, like millions of other good people in this country. We share many Tory beliefs, but we aren't the elite, we are the same as you.

likley seek what community solution?

what communities

what solution

'Cometh the hour, cometh the man'
Cometh the crisis, cometh the community.

It may be Miliband or someone else. Someone will eventually stand head and shoulders above others and provide good policies and leadership that will solve the crisis, sort out the bankers, get them lending and get the economy moving for the benefit of our shared community, and that person will win with a landslide.

So you're just a piece of meat for "the elite" to play with, in which case you might as well vote Tory?

shared community - its a country, rich people aren't suffering the same as poor people, we are not in this together

I'm absolutely baffled by the absence of logic here tbh.

The solution exists. The crisis can be solved. The community will choose the right perosn for the task. I am an optimist, I have faith in humanity and the strengtrh and wisdom of the community.

what community?

i think he means the Masons

'So you're just a piece of meat for "the elite" to play with, in which case you might as well vote Tory?'

Certainly not. I believe in many Tory values. It wasn't teh Tories who were on deck when the ship of state crashed and it wasn't the Tories who left a note saying "sorry there's no money left". They have been dealt a very bad hand. We wil have to see how they play it. At the moment they are going through a rough patch, but it is still possible that they can turn it round. If it becomes obvious that they can't then the public will vote them out.

No, we're not Custardo.

Claig - I'm not suggesting you get a kick out of being perverse, but really, if you're going to take some sort of contrarian pride in being a Tory, try not to completely undermine your stance by alluding to teh el111te!!1 conspiraciez. It just makes you look even moar bonkers.

that isn't community

that was to claig

Who is 'he' and who mentioned the Masons. They are a charming family but what have they got to do with it?

Ohhhhhh I see

UrIndoors, Naomi Klein seems to think that some of these crises are deliberate. I think that too. I don't think she is bonkers.