You have to laugh or you wouls cry

[newwave]

You Tory scum voters were warned but did you listen ? oh no you new better now society is being badly damaged the same as during the bitch Thatchers years.

Will Ghost Town be number 1 again because it seens like 1981 has returned with a vengance.

One question, the financial crash must be the Tories fault after all they blamed Brown for the last one, or maybe the Tory filth is wrong about Brown as they are in so very many things.

No where is my "I didnt vote Tory" badge.

CES, an enjoyable debate and I have to go to work in the morning but please just address one point which is why this happens under Tory governments.

My view is that Tories destroy the hopes of those on the edge of society with what they say and do, you only have to see/hear Osbourne to know he would sell your blind Grandmother as dog food if he could.

This is nothing like Broadwater. I remember how that one went only too well. This is flash mob looting whilst your mates are smashing things up and keeping the cops busy on the High Street. It's quite different.

'My view is that Tories destroy the hopes of those on the edge of society with what they say and do, you only have to see/hear Osbourne to know he would sell your blind Grandmother as dog food if he could.'

Do you think the 14 year old looters and the blackberry brigade even know what the Tories and Osborne say or even care? Stop believing socialist lies, open your eyes and start to think.

I think it's a coincidence tbh. In the eighties when the police ran the show like a racist militia, something was bound to give in the black community, frustrated at their treatment. Ever since then the police have backed off, the gang culture has got stronger and stronger, the killings have escalated, little girls being caught in the cross-fire, teenagers stabbed for 'disrespecting' others.... and this undercurrent of general lawlessness needed very little excuse to spill out from being 'in-house' to being 'in public'. Could just as easily have happened at any time in recent years.

This is nothing like Broadwater.

Similiar circumstances, Police actions caused a death and a protest turned into a riot, no doubt a lot of scroates jumped on the band waggon as is happening now.

I remember a riot in High Wycombe in 81 which at the time was a high employment and affluent area so no doubt their was/is a lot a copy cat actions.

Armchair champagne socialists sit back and say it is government cuts, but do you think that the families burnt out of their homes think the same as the champagne socialists? Those poor families understand the real reason for what is happening and don't believe Ken Livingstone's explanations.

Do you think the 14 year old looters and the blackberry brigade even know what the Tories and Osborne say or even care? Stop believing socialist lies, open your eyes and start to think.

Claig we have dedated in the past and I would put my "ability to think" at a very high level (unlike my spelling tonight). As for Socialist lies I have not heard anyone from the left condoning the riots or have I missed something?.

I thing I would condem is Boris and Camerons blase attitude.

"Armchair champagne socialists" do you have a copy of the Daily Mail dictionary or do you always post in cliches.

I am not talking about socialists condoning the riots. I am talking about their usual spiel of it being about government cuts. Why don't they ask the poor burnt out families what they think the reason is? Why don't they listen to the local people, some who have lost everything, on Sky News who talk about the looters, arsonists and the lack of protection?

'do you have a copy of the Daily Mail dictionary or do you always post in cliches.'

pot calling the kettle? You're the one who can't understand what is happening because you are blinkered by your cliched view of Tory scum voters and Osborne selling his grandmother. Your hatred of Tories blinds you to reality and you miss the real reasons that events happen.

Good night all, I have been on holiday for the last 20 days (Parga in Greece) and have just checked my e mails to read my in tray is a foot high so time for bed and an early start tommorow (sigh)

good night

No Osbourn selling others Grandmothers and it is not "Tory scum voters" but people who vote for Tory scum, I was not calling those who vote Tory scum (selfish maybe) but not scum, poor punctuation I am afraid

At least my hatred of Tories is rational

Cogito-brilliantly said. There is NO excuse for what has happened over the last few days. How does destroying your own community help the situation? There has been blatant disregard for the safety of people in the rioters own hometowns. The people who are looting are despicable. They are not protesting about anything, they are stealing. And actually I do not believe that you can be "poor" as in, on the bread line, and also own a blackberry.

Right... so no causes, no context, right?

The fact that almost 50% of young people in inner city London are unemployed with little or not hope for the future has nothing to do with it?

The 300+ deaths in police custody in the last three decades has nothing to do with it?

The shooting and apparent coverup of the man in London has nothing to do with it?

The truth is, London is a bit of a Victorian shithole. You have huge numbers of disaffected, poor, unemployed people living in squalor, while their public services are being cut to pay for bailouts for bankers - who continue to award themselves millions in bonuses.

I'm sorry, but it's just absurd to say just say it's 'feral youth'. Why so many youth at the same time? Why so many youths willing to do this? Why so much anger? Happy communities don't riot. Do you think if we lived in a healthier, happier society with more equality and less poverty, with job opportunities, with a government which represents the interest of the public well-being at large, rather than the feral elite and the richest - do you think there would be so many people rioting?

People commit these sorts of crimes when they have nothing to lose. Do young people who have a good job and live in a nice house in a crime-free neighbourhood go out and riot? Of course not.

The violence is not justified, but neither is it unexpected or 'random criminality'.

Cogito-brilliantly said. There is NO excuse for what has happened over the last few days. How does destroying your own community help the situation? There has been blatant disregard for the safety of people in the rioters own hometowns. The people who are looting are despicable. They are not protesting about anything, they are stealing. And actually I do not believe that you can be "poor" as in, on the bread line, and also own a blackberry.

It doesn't help, and it's a shame that they're attacking their own neighbourhoods. They would have a lot more public sympathy if they directed their anger at Parliament, the banks, and No. 10. Right now, they are putting the public in danger and causing them alarm and distress. It's a f*cked up situation, and very wrong.

But yes, they are poor. They are poor of opportunity and hope and many are poor of education and health and healthcare.

pot calling the kettle? You're the one who can't understand what is happening because you are blinkered by your cliched view of Tory scum voters and Osborne selling his grandmother. Your hatred of Tories blinds you to reality and you miss the real reasons that events happen.

Not unlike your blind hatred of 'socialists' and 'New Labour', then?

Sorry, 'socialists' should be in quotes (you apply it randomly), but not New Labour.

Of course there is a reason why it is happening, but it is not poverty.
There are disaffected youths and also criminals involved. Do you think that happy clappy societies have no criminal elements? Do you know how much profit the drug gangs earn?

Where are they??

Where is Osbourne?

Where is Cameron? Where is Boris?

???????????????????????????????????????

I don't hate socialists. I even vote for them sometimes. But I know how to spot bullshit spiel used for political gain. I know when people don't ask the real questions but choose to lead suckers up the wrong path for their own political advantage.

Yes, it is partially poverty. Poverty is related to crime, as is drug addiction.

'Happy clappy' soceities have criminal elements, of course. Every society does. But unhappier societies with gross inequality, poverty, and inequality, are like a tinderbox... and so we see what we are seeing now in London.

It's not unexpected or random because there is a high level of youth crime in London and there has been for a long, long time. They've been scrapping amongst themselves for years leaving a trail of bodies in their wake, and that was in the good times pre 2008... well before austerity measures were so much as a glint in Osborne's eye... as well as afterwards. It's not that they have nothing to lose so much as they have no-one to answer to. Do you think these people are upset about housing benefit or unemployment when they make a reasonable living running drugs and guns? Their world is not about getting the bus to work and paying bills, it's a subculture of black economy, 'respect' and kill or be killed.

What's changed is that rather than taking lumps out of each other, they've joined forces and have turned on us. Parliament has a major role to take in deciding how to deal with the problem. And the Met is going to have to seriously clean up London rather than tiptoe round the gangs in future.

'Poverty is related to crime, as is drug addiction.'

there are lots of rich and famous drug addicts, and the drug barons are not poor. Just like some of the people jailed at past demos have come from wealthy backgrounds, I think we will see that some of the arrests here are of people who are not poor.

Apparently, even some Bullingdon club members in the past have trashed a restaurant.