JW please help me to understand my new friend

[cantthinkofausername26]

I've got a lovely new friend, we have children the same age and they get on fabulously. My friend is a Jehovah's Witness. I understand she will not celebrate Christmas or birthdays but I'm nervous about offending her. For example, would it be weird to invite her to my house that's a Christmas grotto? How do I not leave her children out when DD gives out little gifts to her classmates at Christmas?

Just ask her. Explain you understand that JWs don't celebrate Christmas but you don't to leave her out or her child so how'd you she want you to handle these situations.
As with all religions they'll be different levels where people feel comfortable crossing boundaries.

As someone that grew up with a parent that was jehovah's witness, I am very surprised that they are friends with you, because that religion teaches that you are part of the world and you are not supposed to be part of the world.
In many respects, I would say jehovah's witnesses are in a cult

Oh, Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult, no doubt about it, and a really harmful and extreme one at that. You're unlikely to get very far with overtures of friendship because they tend to be very isolationist. JWs actually want to be left out.

They seem very friendly and very keen for our children to mix. They also very normal too. I don't think they can be particularly strict JW.

Yes I'm sure they are keen for your children to mix. Just be very very careful - I'm sure your new friend is a lovely person, but JW will try and bring you into their faith.
Regarding Christmas etc - just ask! I find being direct solves lots of problems and avoids potential miscommunication.

They are a proselytising faith, so likely will try to convert you. Normal friendship outside of JW is actively discouraged so it's unlikely you'll ever be more than acquaintances. I agree re asking her what's appropriate re Christmas.

I have JW in the family and would also assume that the friendliness is with the goal of recruiting you and your children, so tread carefully. Wanting your children to mix doesn’t mean they aren’t strict (given it’s a cult you don’t get degress of strictness as you do with the religions you may be more used to).
Regarding the gift just ask whether they would be happy for the child to be given a non-Christmas gift another day.

There's no such thing as a non-strict JW. They're all terrified into submission by the threat of being shunned, and any friendliness is because they're desperate to convert you.

Interesting how you seem to know EVERY JW. Maybe they were born into it but want a normal life?

I have quite a lot of knowledge about how they work. The organisation is downright nasty and uses fear to control and manipulate its members. They're taught that they won't be saved unless they put in enough effort to convert others, and that the world we live in is so corrupt and evil that they're to have no part in it - hence not voting, not celebrating Christmas and birthdays etc.

The practice of being shunned for rule breaking has devastating effects as well. Even extremely minor rule breaking has really serious consequences, in which you can effectively lose everything. Given that Witnesses can't have close friendships with anyone who isn't part of the organisation, and will end up completely estranged from everyone they know if they put a foot wrong, the coercion and pressure members are under is absolutely enormous.

They are probably lovely people, but this is what they're dealing with, and it affects everything they do.

Please do some reading around and research online. JW is very much a one-size cult, there is no shallow-end or soft version.

Absolutely. I know a former JW who left and began attending a Baptist church instead. His wife and kids never spoke to him again. Ever.

There is a fairly new helpline, something like Faith to Faithless, set up to support people who have been shunned from their religions. Former JWs are the most common users of the helpline.

It is a cult, often with dangerous implications. Tread very carefully OP.

Agreed. I think any attempt to befriend a JW needs to come with a very clear boundary that says "I'm not getting involved with your faith". You'll probably find that'll make them lose interest fairly quickly and move on to someone else anyway.

Why have you posted if you don't want people to share knowledge with you?

I'm so relieved to see others referring to it as a cult.

Please do take heed OP and do some reading

They are ALL held strictly accountable to the same set of rules with very severe consequences for stepping out of line. There is no grey area. So yes, it’s entirely fair to assume you know every one of them. They are all singing off the same hymn sheet.

Hi OP,
I am a JW...born as a JW and baptised in my teens. Of course there are many many opinions about JWs on mumsnet (hence my name change) obviously you've made friends with a family and you can see for yourself how normal you find them. As with any faith...many of us are mad. (Maybe I'm mad lol)

As with all religions we are actually all different people and our personalities and backgrounds often effect how we are with different things.

Many of my close friends and relatives are not JWs. They ask if they can give my kids winter gifts, I never say no to this and my kids enjoy it. I defo go out of my way to gift my relatives and friends and spoil them at other times of the year. I'd hate that to feel one sided. I also do the same for my kiddos and nieces/nephews who are Jws too. They also get a parties with their school mates as they get invited often and don't go to bdays.

My gran who was Catholic would make individual cakes for all her grandkids, my cousins would have Christmas ones and I'd have a snowman and little Robin. Really treasured memories for me, my parents were not opposed to this at all.

I think the best bet is to ask your friends how they feel about it. I still visit my family's homes where there are decorations up. It depends on them as a family. But just don't be offended if they'd rather not, or they'd prefer to hang out when it's less festive.

Hope that's helpful x

@Namechanging88 With the greatest of respect, I don't think you fully understand what you're involved in, and that's completely understandable - I was in a similar position with an extremist Christian group in my teens.

Please, please, please get out if you can.

I haven't attempted to befriend her, and she didn't befriend me. We have children in the same class and naturally became friends. She has never even spoken about JW to me, and the only reason I know she is, is because the teacher explained to all the children why her child won't be celebrating Christmas. Some very harsh comments. I've always been of the opinion of each to their own. What people chose to believe is their business. I didn't realise there was so much hatred towards JW.
I'm certainly not going to be brainwashed or talked into anything but thanks for the concern and warnings to 'tread carefully'

Have you been actively encouraged to not befriend non JW?

Thank you for your reply. How do you feel about the negative comments towards your faith? I'm quite shocked by it

I don't hate JWs - I hate the organisation for inflicting so much misery and suffering on its members. You do realise there have been loads of preventable deaths because of their stance on blood transfusion, don't you? That's just for starters.

People become JWs because they're told it'll all be wonderful and brilliant and they'll be saved and will live in paradise forever, but the effects it can have on people's lives are absolutely devastating. As I pointed out above, there was a former JW in my church who left, and his wife and kids never spoke to him again for the rest of his life. I mean that - not a single word. They never acknowledged his presence, even when he was in the same room as them. Can you imagine what that did to him?

I should also point out that I'm a victim of religious abuse, so I'm quite wary of anyone attempting to convert me, but also understanding of how they got there.

A lot of JWs think the persecution they face is a sign they're getting things right. There's plenty of Bible verses that can justify that belief.

The JW religion is a cult which denies the most fundamental and basic tenets of Christianity, but they won’t tell you this upfront. Personally I would be extremely wary. JWs who leave the cult are shunned by those still enmeshed in it, even if they are family. Be very careful, OP.

I've worked with ex-JWs. It's certainly a nasty, damaging and frankly very frightening cult. I don't think they will ever be fully recovered from it.