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Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Euthanasia conflict

168 replies

Patternedwallpaper · 12/08/2024 15:21

Hi all,

Been trying to pick a church recently. I was raised C of E but feel it's not for me now and was going to try another. Found one I like, but it is against homosexuality, abortion and euthanasia. They are friendly and welcoming to everyone no matter what the circumstances, but just believe all 3 are wrong. I dont necessarily; i think i can square my feelings about abortion and homosexuality, but I just cant see the problem with euthanasia when a very old or ill person is suffering :(

Does anyone else have this conflict? Can you tell me your thoughts/experiences? What are the compelling religious arguments against euthanasia?

OP posts:
Pocketfullofdogtreats · 12/08/2024 20:55

OP, stick with your own views about contentious subjects and find a church with welcoming people where you enjoy the worship and fellowship. You're unlikely to be asked.

MilkyCappuchino · 12/08/2024 20:58

What do you expect a church to teach? Do you have your own theology accordingly tailored to all you want to hear but not really see what the Bible says about it? Why bother then? Join a forum and discuss your likes and preferences but hoping what? That God is a god of own making or

Karatema · 12/08/2024 21:00

Aug12 · 12/08/2024 19:40

I’m sorry but I think any Christian church that is biblical in teachings, will have these views as they are following their bible and God.

Not true. I was brought up non conformist but attend the C of E that's within walking distance.
One of the local vicars, who has become a friend, brings his husband to church. There are a few members who disapprove but most accept him. Congregation numbers increase when he's on duty.

Onehotday · 12/08/2024 21:02

Euthanasia and abortion are both acts of killing/ending human life. You will not find a church that follows god but allows these practices.

Maybe you need to look into different types of belief systems if that's what you want.

Patternedwallpaper · 12/08/2024 21:06

cupcaske123 · 12/08/2024 19:33

I don't agree with euthanasia at all. I couldn't get on board with homophobia and anti abortion sentiments. I bet they have a very traditional view of a woman's place as well.

They don't seem to make mention of it, both treated equally

OP posts:
Patternedwallpaper · 12/08/2024 21:10

thursdaymurderclub · 12/08/2024 19:40

i wouldn't follow any religion that dictated to me what i can or cannot have an opinion on! thats not a religion its a cult!

They welcome all, but do follow scripture

OP posts:
cupcaske123 · 12/08/2024 21:13

oopsygossypiboma · 12/08/2024 20:24

I don't want to upset the many Catholics on this board by going into all the reasons why I think Catholicism has it wrong, so I won't.

I'm assuming you've heard of the temptation of Eve who caused the fall.
Yes indeed, which is exactly what that verse from Romans is about.

How much misinformation can be peddled in just one post?
I was just thinking the same!

Due to interpretations of the creation stories, women have been considered to be in a state of punishment for sin. The Latin Fathers of the Church held women responsible for bringing original sin into the world and for being a continuing source of seduction. Women were considered 'sinful creatures' wholly inappropriate to be channels of god's grace.

Genesis describes the fall and God says to Eve,

“I will multiply your pains in childbirth. You shall give birth to your children in pain. You will long for your husband, but he will lord it over you.”

Therefore women's subjection to men was interpreted as an inescapable curse by God. 1 Timothy 2,14 blames Eve for being deceived and therefore responsible for sin.

The Latin Fathers such as Tertullian were misogynists. For example:

“Every woman should be ….walking about as Eve mourning and repentant, in order that by every garb of penitence she might the more fully expiate that which she derives from Eve,-the ignominy, I mean, of the first sin, and the odium (attaching to her as the cause) of human perdition."

St Jerome blamed women for the fall from grace saying that women can only overcome their guilt by childbearing, or by abstaining from sex and becoming virgins.

Ambrosiaster said:

"Women must cover their heads because they are not the image of God. They must do this as a sign of their subjection to authority and because sin came into the world through them...Because of original sin they must show themselves submissive.

St Chrysostom said that the subjection of the ‘whole female race’ to men was a permanent punishment for sin.

The Decretum Gratiani states that in the New Testament women are allowed less than in the Old Testament, because now they have to carry the responsibility for their share in original sin.This reasoning is directly tied to the ban against women’s ordination.

Guido de Baysio said:

“Moreover, woman was the effective cause of damnation since she was the origin of transgression and Adam was deceived through her, and thus she cannot be the effective cause of salvation, because holy orders causes grace in others and so salvation."

The Hammer of the Witches which was endorsed by Pope Innocent VIII was used for centuries and millions of women were tortured and killed. Here's an example:

“It should be noted that there was a defect in the formation of the first woman, since she was formed from a bent rib, that is, a rib of the breast, which is bent as it were in a contrary direction to man. And since through this defect she is an imperfect animal, she always deceives”.

There is page after page of vitriol against women who are viewed as inferior to men and the cause of original sin. And so it goes on.

Patternedwallpaper · 12/08/2024 21:18

Onehotday · 12/08/2024 21:02

Euthanasia and abortion are both acts of killing/ending human life. You will not find a church that follows god but allows these practices.

Maybe you need to look into different types of belief systems if that's what you want.

I'm here to get the opposing view...

OP posts:
Patternedwallpaper · 12/08/2024 21:20

Aug12 · 12/08/2024 19:40

I’m sorry but I think any Christian church that is biblical in teachings, will have these views as they are following their bible and God.

I agree, but no need to be sorry, I'm here to explore the issue, I asked for others' thoughts and experiences relating to this issue

OP posts:
Aug12 · 12/08/2024 21:21

Karatema · 12/08/2024 21:00

Not true. I was brought up non conformist but attend the C of E that's within walking distance.
One of the local vicars, who has become a friend, brings his husband to church. There are a few members who disapprove but most accept him. Congregation numbers increase when he's on duty.

James 4:12 “There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?”

the bible says that no one other than God and our Lord and Saviour Jesus, have the right to pass judgement for we are all sinners. Just because members of your congregation accept him that doesn’t make it right with God.

MilkyCappuchino · 12/08/2024 21:22

Patternedwallpaper · 12/08/2024 21:18

I'm here to get the opposing view...

You won't get the opposing view on here from Bible believing christians. You will get it from people who do not believe the Bible and if they go to church, is for consuming their community events; therefore do not say you want to find a church for practicing your faith but you want a church which is there to provide entertainment and there are thousands of such right now, all over the world

Patternedwallpaper · 12/08/2024 21:24

AquaFurball · 12/08/2024 20:51

Do you feel you need to belong to an organised religion?

Would a spiritual community align better with your beliefs?

Maybe. I feel drawn to organised religion these days, certainly Christianity has helped me through tough times. I was full atheist at one point, definitely on a journey 🤣

OP posts:
cupcaske123 · 12/08/2024 21:25

oopsygossypiboma · 12/08/2024 20:26

No they don't, they believe homosexual activity is a sin.
There are many gay (celibate) Priests in the CC.

Catholicism and other denominations view homosexuality as a sin.

cupcaske123 · 12/08/2024 21:38

Aug12 · 12/08/2024 20:30

Women aren’t to blame for the first sin.. that was Adam, the first man, he lost the original holiness he had received from God, not only for himself but for all humans.

Only a few denominations are against contraception but most aren’t.. I would encourage you to gain a deeper knowledge of its teachings. If you are a Christian then perhaps a bible study would be a good way to do this? If you aren’t a Christian, the bible may still make a good read, at least then you will know the word of God and be able decide whether it’s a load of mumbo-jumbo or not after reading what it says :)

I've answered the woman blamed for original sin in another post.

Catholicism is the largest Christian denomination in the world and doesn't allow artificial contraception. Some denominations allow it mostly in marriage, some allow it but are very strict.

I've read the bible, thanks.

Imoenthethief · 12/08/2024 22:05

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Maddy70 · 12/08/2024 22:09

oopsygossypiboma · 12/08/2024 20:33

It isn't supposed to be all about OP and her preferences; it's about God.

Surely a forgiving God welcomes the op. Its the church shes attended that doesn't?

oopsygossypiboma · 13/08/2024 09:05

Maddy70 · 12/08/2024 22:09

Surely a forgiving God welcomes the op. Its the church shes attended that doesn't?

Who said they weren't welcoming?

oopsygossypiboma · 13/08/2024 09:06

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That is the path they have chosen for themselves through obedience to God, according to His Word.

oopsygossypiboma · 13/08/2024 09:07

cupcaske123 · 12/08/2024 21:25

Catholicism and other denominations view homosexuality as a sin.

That isn't true, please do some research. Also look into Complementarianism. I'll have to get back to your other post later on.

cupcaske123 · 13/08/2024 09:31

oopsygossypiboma · 13/08/2024 09:07

That isn't true, please do some research. Also look into Complementarianism. I'll have to get back to your other post later on.

Catholicism views homosexuality as sinful because of natural law and interpretations of certain passages of the bible. This position is followed by many other Christian denominations such as the Orthodox Church, some Protestant denominations, the Pentecostal, Evangelical, Methodist churches and others.

In fact, the Catholic church refuses to bless same sex couples as it says that 'God can't bless a sin.'

The Catechism of the Catholic church considers homosexual activity to be a grave sin against chastity and views same sex attraction as objectively disordered.

Inspireme2 · 13/08/2024 09:38

oopsygossypiboma · 12/08/2024 19:29

Why do you believe killing our most vulnerable - babies and ill people - is ever ok?

You choose to use euthansia.
Usually you are dying or better off to be gone.
Small minded response.

SunnyWavess · 13/08/2024 09:41

oopsygossypiboma · 12/08/2024 19:29

Why do you believe killing our most vulnerable - babies and ill people - is ever ok?

An abortion at 8 weeks isn’t killing a baby

cupcaske123 · 13/08/2024 09:42

cupcaske123 · 13/08/2024 09:31

Catholicism views homosexuality as sinful because of natural law and interpretations of certain passages of the bible. This position is followed by many other Christian denominations such as the Orthodox Church, some Protestant denominations, the Pentecostal, Evangelical, Methodist churches and others.

In fact, the Catholic church refuses to bless same sex couples as it says that 'God can't bless a sin.'

The Catechism of the Catholic church considers homosexual activity to be a grave sin against chastity and views same sex attraction as objectively disordered.

Edited

Here's the excerpt from the Catechism:

CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
SECOND EDITION

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Inspireme2 · 13/08/2024 09:49

What religion would accept any of these controversal things?
Yet it is a human right not a religion to tell us its ok or not.
Hypercrites.
Driving past the catholic school every morning i wonder how many of those kids are safe & ok yet they are against human rights. Makes me sick.

Imoenthethief · 13/08/2024 12:34

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