Why (or why not) be Christian?

[Mustardseed86]

Continuing the "Will you make it to heaven?" threads started by @VincitVeritas which have become a more wide-ranging discussion about matters of faith, Christian belief.

Hope to see you on here when the last thread runs out of space! And new posters welcome too.

We've recently been discussing the evidence for God, the soul and life after death, and debating what constitutes reliable evidence in this context.

Also some talk about whether it's accurate to say humans are 'sinful' and why/why not, some discussion of Paul and the validity of his writings and status as an apostle, how the Bible was formed (and why other writings didn't make the canon) the basis of morality/ethics, whether Jesus's message was intended for an excusively Jewish audience, the meaning of Christ (or Messiah), church tradition and different denominations, end times and probably more I've forgotten!

But I wasn’t asking about God. I was asking whether you thought there was something bigger, outside of ourselves.

Do you see evolution as an improvement? We don’t live in caves anymore, we build houses, we heat those houses, make ourselves slaves to pay for them, to furnish them. In terms of the earth is this good?

we create antibiotics - nature creates more aggressive infections.

I would argue none of those things are about evolution - they are discoveries of mankind. We’ve been making discoveries forever, the vast vast majority of the time a lot of that is lost, especially with the fall of empires.

We’ve had societies where women have had more advanced position than now.

We seem to be going backwards in some respects.

Evolution suggests things will just keep getting better and better. But history tells us that’s not how things work but we’ve had this peculiar notion some the 19th century that everything is working towards perfection on earth through man’s efforts alone. Yet here we are, supposedly so advanced on the brink of destroying the very planet on which we live. In terms of survival we don’t seem to have evolved to do a very good job!

No I don’t think there is anything bigger outside of ourselves.

No I don’t think there is anything bigger outside of ourselves.

@Parker231, is this not a self centred perspective? (See my last post)

Nothing complex. Being an atheist is very straightforward. I have a strong personal belief as to what is right and wrong. I don’t believe in anything greater than ourselves or defer to any greater force as I don’t believe there is one.

No - I base my life on being a good human being with strong relationships with family and friends and knowing the difference between right and wrong. Not something I think or worry about

@Parker231 the complexity comings from you saying that believe most people are unselfish and yet your personal perspective is entirely centred upon yourself/ your own personal point of view. Your perspective is self centred in other words. Don't you see a contradiction here?

@Parker231 I mean how can you be truly empathetic from such an individually centred perspective?

Or it it’s not self centred surely you then believe in something bigger than yourself?

knowing the difference between right and wrong.

@Parker231, rooted in your personal feelings?

No - I don’t think most people are selfish and yes, my own personal belief system works for me. I have no need to rely upon any gods.

Yes - same as the majority. You learn what you accept as what is right or wrong.

Again - I don’t believe in anything bigger than ourselves.

@Parker231 so your unselfishness is self defined...People are how they define themselves?

@Parker231
Like trans ideology?

Because I have good morals and a well developed sense of what is right or wrong. I don’t need any god to tell me.

So everything you do and all your “personal belief system” is aimed at satisfying your own needs then?

Yes - that’s how people determine good v bad.

Sorry but you need to read my posts.

Because I have good morals and a well developed sense of what is right or wrong. I don’t need any god to tell me.

@Parker231, which are self defined morals? Self defined empathy?

Oh I’ve read your posts. But they are self contradictory. You don’t believe in anything outside of self yet you don’t act in a selfish way? I’m not sure allow you can sort those contradictory statements in your head. Perhaps you can clarify

Yes

Yes - that’s how people determine good v bad.

@Parker231, ah this is not true for people of the Christian faith.

If everyone has self defined morals, self defined rights and wrongs how is society meant to function?

Evolution suggests things will just keep getting better and better.

No it does not!

The mechanism of evolution, natural selection, does result in the evolution of improved abilities to survive and reproduce; however, this does not mean that evolution is progressive and makes things 'better and better'. It simply makes a species adapt better to its environment.

@Kdtym10 selfishly?