Soul Survivor thread 2

[BadSkiingMum]

This is a thread for anyone following the events at Soul Survivor or wishing to discuss their own experiences or the experiences of their loved ones within evangelical, charismatic and pentecostal religious spaces.

The terms of reference about the independent review are now available: https://www.soulsurvivorwatford.co.uk/review
Fiona Scolding KC makes a personal request for anyone with information to speak to her.
Landmark Chambers is a well regarded set.

To my mind it is just a shame this wasn't handed over to someone entirely independent earlier.

There was a standing ovation and cheers when Andy Croft was back at Soul Survivor today. This is who victims went to for help right?
The Watford SS Facebook page is full of people lamenting him leaving, not one ounce of sympathy for the victims.

I shouldn’t be surprised but I was.

Isn’t there some query over how independent she is though? I am sure I saw a post on X about who she is married to and a conflict of interest. I will try to find it. Not knocking that it’s being done though.

https://x.com/realsynodqus/status/1701686336053256209?s=46&t=oe6Lr-bMkSpnC5WBu8BQOw

Not a single jot of care about the victims…

Which 'great people' ?

Andy Croft.

Took a youth group to Soul Survivor many years ago.
At one of their big sessions Youth were told to stand up if they would die for Jesus.
If they didn't stand up they were told they weren't true Christians.
Kids in tears. Looking at me for guidance.
I got us out of the 'tent', had long chats with the youth, and we came home.

I mislaid the thread. Having caught up it’s all very shocking.

I’m so sorry for your retraumatising, BornAgain. Is there any hope that those who know will recognise how appalling his narrative is? They know you were young.

What I would say, we process things as stories. He’s processing his appalling behaviour as a story. It isn’t in any way true, and perhaps isn’t intended as truth. It’s a mythology loosely based on how he felt about things.

I suppose I’m saying it’s all about him, not you.

What he did was awful. What he’s doing now is awful and he’s given no consideration to you, and the impact of it. He’s abusive. I am sorry.

Play with the idea that the story he’s telling isn’t about you, and see if it helps at all.

I hope you find a way to manage all the difficult emotions, and find a way forward that works for you- whether that’s telling your story on Billboards or blocking reference to him everywhere you can.

And well done@AyrshireTryer , for protecting those kids.

The Facebook page is rather worrying.
Hardly any concern for the victims.
The blindness that God is in control when good things happen, but when abuse happens that's people using their free will.

That's pretty much the definition of spiritual abuse right there. Awful.

I am inclined to give the Soul Survivor church attendees/members a bit of time to process stuff and learn a different style of leadership as I know it is very easy to get caught up in an abusive system and not realise/understand the full situation for a while.

At a church I attended, we had a leader who emotionally abused me (not too much/badly thankfully, although I was very vulnerable at the time) and then had to leave for "conduct unbecoming to a minister" - think long term affair situation.

At the time he left, I was obviously upset by what he had done regarding the affair but also still felt warmly towards him. Now I look back and wonder why on earth I felt like that. It took me time to understand the nature of his abuse towards me.

Having said all of that, I am a bit concerned about Andy Croft's apology. It seems to have a lot of "may have hurt" , " may have contributed to" type phrases rather than just saying " I have hurt" and " I have contributed to". I am concerned that he is intending to continue to attend SS while he works out what to do next. The guy needs to make a clean break and it will make it more difficult for the church to move on if he is still attending. These aspects make me feel he has not yet properly realised/faced his part in the situation.

However again I remember he started a SS as an 18 year old intern and has known no other church mentorship really than that of MP. I think he still has a way to go too in processing what has happened and his part in it. I hope he is able to make more progress with this and I think it is absolutely right that he leaves SS.

All this of course doesn't detract from what the victims have experienced and suffered and this does need to be addressed properly. I am really sorry for everyone here who has experienced awful things.

Scolding has a good reputation and I hope her review gets to the heart of the matter. I have some hope she will be able to put her other church connections to one side. I am a bit concerned as to whether the scope is wide enough to cover everything needed.

https://x.com/heyjames/status/1729429640647766465?s=46&t=oe6Lr-bMkSpnC5WBu8BQOw

I feel sad that he is giving up on this but totally understand the toll it must have taken on his mental health. Very little support still for those speaking out and having looked at SS Watford’s Facebook page, it’s clear that there is no care for the victims.

Just checking back in - how is everyone?

Hi everyone. We have radio 2 on in the office and I think I just heard Jeremy Vine say he'd be discussing Soul Survivor with Matt and Beth Redman on the show today.

On checking God Loves Women's twitter, it seems the Redmans have made a film about it. Could be really interesting and hopefully helpful for a lot of people.

https://twitter.com/needs_light/status/1777576576994922898?t=qwNXWqk_t1F0V_IoPXfsYQ&s=19

Wow that's brilliant. Will watch it when I am feeling strong enough

Just came on to say I am listening to that

Just listening now, it was from 12:36pm. I watched the - it was very well done, sensitive to victims and clear.

I'd also really recommend the podcast Soul Survivors, mentioned earlier in the thread, there are quite a few episodes now. It is really very well done too.

I wish we were better at calling out narcissism at its earliest stages. If he’d been pushed against earlier, he’d never have been in such a position of unassailability.

Why are we tolerating these egotistical, moody people, let alone letting them thrive? Why are we holding back people with humility and promoting those with charisma?

I know that’s not what the abuse is, but it allows the abuse to follow.

He was the golden man, the pied piper who could bring the young people back to the dying church. Of course they told him he could do whatever he liked, he was different and had different ways that could not be understood by people who didn't have young people lining up to hear them speak. There are still so many Christian figures who have not been honest about their connection and history with Mike Pilavachi - What about Tim Hughes, now a vicar in Birmingham? How about Nicky Gumbel? Their silence is deafening.

Yes. I was a New Wine regular, and became aware of a cliqueyness among leadership- I see it now, too. Ordinary CofE but some people fit more than others.
I love the people I work with. And I see that there are still cool kids and less cool kids. And that’s dangerous. Looking for attractiveness as a quality is so dangerous.

I was posting on the old thread but didn't realise there was a new one. I think the response from new wine is awful, like they are trying to minimise their involvement. But I did soul survivor 3 times and new wine 8 times. MP ran the youth part of new wine for years. MP was a bit part of new wine and I think they should acknowledge that. My church still has their head in the sand and refuses to talk about it at all. They are all (except me) saying they've never heard of MP so it doesn't matter. Personally I think as an absolute minimum it's a wake up call for all churches and we should all be reviewing safeguarding policies. Also sorry if it's been mentioned and I've forgotten but has J John said anything about all this? I don't know about recently but I remember they were really good friends in the 90's.