Soul Survivor thread 2

[BadSkiingMum]

This is a thread for anyone following the events at Soul Survivor or wishing to discuss their own experiences or the experiences of their loved ones within evangelical, charismatic and pentecostal religious spaces.

I was chatting to my parents yesterday who still attend the church Mike worked at before going to Soul Survivor. Their friend worked with him for years and, like us all, was equally surprised at the revelations.

But our views differ at that point. My parents see it as somewhat of a witch-hunt orchestrated by the Telegraph (slightly ironic given they're probably among the Telegraph's longest subscribers) and along the lines of an isolated incident blown out of proportion.

Then again, they hadn't seen the latest CofE statement. I guess you don't want to believe that someone you liked is guilty of inappropriate behaviour with young adults. On my side, I also liked Mike and he was an inspiring youth team leader, but I can't condone what he's done to vulnerable people he should have been safeguarding.

Plenty of seemingly nice people do awful things and we can't brush it under the carpet. Particularly in a church setting which has to put the safety of kids and young adults as the highest priority. The church has to be transparent and take the necessary steps.

Thankyou - posting to save my space!

And yes I think the "oh its a witch hunt " vive is strong. A friend of mine will still say that. I think it links back to either the bottom about "loyalty" that the Croydon vineyard article mentioned or also not wanting to believe our leaders are fallible. The "if I doubt this what else will come crumbling down."

The witch- hunt vibe is so often what allows these situations to happen.
Too often, in my experience, things which anyone on the "outside" would consider absolutely horrifying, are allowed to happen in our churches, because we must be gracious, forgiving etc.
I think most people mean well but safeguarding standards, recognition of abuse etc are well below what we would see in any other professional arena, or, indeed, in most "normal" walks of life.
Someone wrote on the last thread that things are often dealt with in the sense that the perpetrator is forgiven by God - but that the forgiveness from the victims, or the hurt caused to victims, is overlooked. This really resonated with me. It is all very well being told that God has forgiven someone but when when you are the one that has been "offended against" and are just told to get on it with because "God has forgiven them" and therefore you have to too, it is a bitter pill to swallow.
And don't get me started on the failure to recognise coercive control...
I'm still in church - after a fashion - but I'll never trust it again.

i think this is why the victims are asking for the CofE report to be published, rather than brushed under the carpet, so that the full extent of what has happened is in the open and people can’t keep denying what is in plain sight.

i also think it is important that all organisations with links to the perpetrator publicly recognise the findings.

It is reminiscent of people not wanting to believe the abuse that Jimmy Saville had perpetrated.

Thank you for starting a new thread.
I still have a lot of friends in evangelical circles who have been very quiet about this. They're not CofE and their churches didn't get big into Soul Survivor but it surprises me that the ripples haven't been felt.

Thank you for the new thread - just here placemarking.

Just pitching my metaphorical tent here.

Quote from an old friend I was talking to about this yesterday: "The number of places I went run by random adults with no procedures whatsoever." Sums up our teen years in evo churches.

I think some people can be un-ready or unwilling to grasp that this has been investigated and has been substantiated.

This isn’t just a rumour, an accusation or even a piece of investigative journalism. This is the outcome of a CofE investigation.

I think these two threads have been some of the most useful that I’ve read.

I still go to a CofE church, I’m married to a vicar in another CofE church and yet it’s just not being discussed.

I went to Soul Survivor as a teen and yet it’s not being discussed. When I challenge why not, people in the church just don’t know or give an acceptable answer. Maybe their “powers that be” haven’t yet shared one 🙄

I think people outside safeguarding circles forget about power dynamics and abuse.

They see two adults, and ignore the coercive inevitability of a young person finding their way submitting to the behaviour of someone who is practically a rock star in those circles.

Many people haven't been in that situation where a hugely influential powerful person is their mentor. They don't recognise the dynamic so don't understand the vulnerability of the young person.

It's the same as the Lolita accusations.

I was on the old thread- namechanged a couple of days ago.
I am inextricably linked with MP and SS through a direct connection but am not a believer in God.

So I have been looking at this as a ‘spiritual outsider’ but closely involved in other ways.
I repeatedly voiced my concerns, particularly about the hysterical speaking in tongues, fainting with the teenagers and I think the final straw was a ski mission trip. Which I would expect was paid for with charity money too.

It destroyed my friendships/relationships because I was called a troublemaker and treated as a gossip.

100% am certain that a CofE vicar in Oxford in the late 90s tried to raise concerns about MP, I don’t know who to and I am no longer in touch with him to find out what happened.

I find it hard to understand how all this happened because I never liked MP, the way that everything was all about him and I saw him as a big creep frankly. There was no charisma that I could fathom. But he must have something to have been so successful at getting away with it all for so long.

Thanks everyone for maintaining these threads and for such refreshing discussion. Was on the SS course (Soul61 equivalent) in the late 90s but no one from my course wants to engage. Finding this a v helpful conversation. Trying to make sense of the whole subculture sent me down some rabbit holes and I’ve become interested in the Nine O’clock service which preceded Soul Survivor but which went in a more eco, liberal (and culty) direction. So much potential in both movements - fostering in young people environmental concern in one, and passion for social justice in the other - and there are some parallels I didn’t understand previously. Both urban youth missions planted by a middle class, charismatic evangelical church in an affluent area. John Wimber’s signs and wonders teaching inspired both. There was a thing about “church as family”, and “intimacy” in both. Again, the bloody massages. Hard not to conclude that the wielding of spiritual authority over young people, especially when it’s this charismatic, prophetic type, is spectacularly vulnerable to abuse.

And is authority spectacularly corrupting?

I know someone who has spent some time on this having found himself on the edge of far too many safeguarding scandals. He was a young man at the 9 oClock, his training incumbent later turned out to have been abusive etc. He has had to reflect on his formative experiences, the hidden abuse he was on the edge of, and what that might mean.

Vanechka
You make some very interesting points. Thank you for sharing your experiences.

I contemplated a gap year with an organisation that was similar to Soul Survivor/Soul61 and in hindsight I'm glad I didn't go down that route.

I know people who did those gap years and the whole thing seemed to be a Christian dating agency with a lot of expectations that you'd find your spouse and marry within a couple of years. I was living with a partner at the time, which as you can imagine was a big no. I'm sure my adult romantic relationships ended up being healthier long term though.

To say the whole situation has left me feeling uncomfortable and full of what ifs is an understatement.

I married my partner I met at uni. Huge mistake and really affected everything. Career, mental health, relationships. Even.housing.

I used to look back and think I missed that time but really... it is like an abusive partner.

https://www.altitudemission.com/team

I mean- is this not a grifters dream? This is all just utterly wrong isn’t it?

In meribel of course. Much like the ‘calls’ to wealthy London areas.

https://www.altitudemission.com/seasonmission

Going through the photos I see that the executive director of SS was there in 2019 with his brothers, one a pastor from SS. I wonder who paid for that?

“An oasis of love, fellowship and fun pouring out blessings onto the revellers of Meribel - exactly where Jesus would be!”. Not sure l would agree with that, wouldn't he be among the poor?

Wow.

There are a few threads on X saying that Andy Croft ( senior pastor of Soul Survivor) "failed to act" when MP's abuse was reported to him. This information was included in a letter that went out to those who participated in the investigation apparently.

By then of course Andy Croft started out as one of MP's interns. I guess it was possible he was groomed to disregard such reports, however it does, of course still go against C of E safeguarding policy!

I think there will be more to come out here.

I agree. it will be interesting to see what the ‘independent review’ will entail, a lot more information may be given to something not internal to the CofE and that has a public commitment of a report to be published.

The God Loves Women Timeline on the Soul Survivor situation has a statement from New Wine (finally they show up) seeking to distance themselves from Soul Survivor. No surprises there. It’s clearly nonsense as the various threads demonstrate how linked New Wine and Soul Survivor are.

I can't understand why New Wine replied in that way. Surely they can't have thought that no one would remember/look up details and information. They really can't have been that naive can they?