If there is a God...why is there...

[sentinent]

As advised by another poster, this post deserves a pot of its own. Something that's been niggling at me for a while now; for those who believe (or even not believe) in the existence of God/a higher power, (I firmly do believe btw), how do we explain children in pain, suffering, getting terminal diseases or being killed??

@Jackandjillswell But if God’s all powerful why doesn’t he just vanquish Satan?

We don’t. We accept that in the chaos and the constant dice rolling of both nature and human intent that shit things happen. We should try our very best to support and be kind to others and so on, but ultimately we could at any time be struck by some kind of disaster or illness and it’s game over. However dark that sounds it really isn’t because we endeavour to find joy and purpose in the present and work to try and promote a nicer world in any small way we can. We’re just animals though. Here for a good time, not a long time.

Gods were envisioned to explain the unexplainable thousands of years ago. We can now explain these things with scientific evidence. Hence, there is no God.
Believing in a higher being provides some people with comfort etc, which is fine. But it has always slightly terrified me that a very large proportion of the world's population still believe in something with absolutely zero proof.

He will, on Judgement Day.

I should point out I’m not just being argumentative, I genuinely don’t understand why it’s any comfort to think “that’s God’s will” when something really bad happens. Why don’t you hold it against God that he could have stopped it happening but didn’t?

Jackandjillswell · Today 10:06
ZebraDanios · Today 09:58

@Jackandjillswell But if God’s all powerful why doesn’t he just vanquish Satan?

“He will, on Judgement Day”

How convenient.

If there is a God who created the universe, they are only all powerful within the logic that has to exist to make a human world work. A square always has to be square. The old classic "can God create a rock so heavy God can't lift it", no they can't because that logic doesn't work. There are rules even an omniscient higher power is stuck within.

If an all powerful God created this world, then this is the best possible version of the world that can exist with humans being what we are. If there is an All Powerful God, they can see every version play out and this is the one they went with.

It is entirely possible to have a God who doesn't create or destroy cancer, doesn't power up a tsunami or hold back a flood, but who loves humanity and wants only good things for them. Of course, the God who doesn't cause the car accident also doesn't save people from the car accident, and I can't see how people can thank God for one and not blame for the other. But I have no difficulty perceiving of a God who created the world in which evil and suffering exist, without them being the one who caused it.

Do you want a civil discussion or are you just here to make unhelpful sarcastic remarks?

@Jackandjillswell So God is fine with all the suffering that’s happened since time immemorial, he’s just hanging on til Judgement Day to end it? Why wait?

I’m not baiting you, I just genuinely don’t understand!

It’s not just satan it’s all of the evil. He has to let it play out then judge each of us to decide our fate and separate the worlds

It all comes down to having Faith.

I've had some lousy things happen in my life, and it wasn't until much later that I realised why they happened and why I needed that experience. Later on I could use what I leaned from that experience to help others.

Jackandjillswell · Today 10:11
MrsSkylerWhite · Today 10:09

Jackandjillswell · Today 10:06
ZebraDanios · Today 09:58

@Jackandjillswell But if God’s all powerful why doesn’t he just vanquish Satan?

“He will, on Judgement Day”

How convenient.
Do you want a civil discussion or are you just here to make unhelpful sarcastic remarks”

Unhelpful how? Why doesn’t your God vanquish Satan right now?

Sigh.
I've already said, I don't have all the answers.

If you really want to discuss these issues I would suggest you make an appointment to see your Parish Priest/Vicar/Pastor. These people have spent 3 years, at least, studying Theology and can give you better answers than I can.

Sigh.
I've already said, I don't have all the answers.

If you really want to discuss these issues I would suggest you make an appointment to see your Parish Priest/Vicar/Pastor. These people have spent 3 years, at least, studying Theology and can give you better answers than I can.

I’m not sure we’re talking about the same bad stuff here though. When I read stories in the news about people beating children to death it’s a little bit hard to see how anyone learns and grows and benefits from that experience.

"In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."
Luke 22:20

.... God's blood is rather central to the Christian faith and its practices, actually!

I remember the exact moment that I knew in as much as it is possible to know something for certain that God does not exist. I had thought it before but that was the moment of certainty. It was on here. A mumsnetter's child was dying. She was an atheist herself but desperate so she asked for prayers. Many of us were keeping vigil with her. Someone was taking the role of.....pastor, for want of a better word. And she said "There are so many of us. Let's lift [X] with our prayers so God can see her." A God cannot be all powerful and all compassionate but at the same time need a certain number of prayers to "see" a suffering child.

@Jackandjillswell I am just as interested in your take on it as I am the “answers”, that’s why I’m asking you. What I mean by that is - you’re confident God will vanquish Satan on Judgement Day. You don’t know why he doesn’t do it before because you don’t know the mind of God. That’s fair enough, but what I suppose I’m asking you is, why are you (you personally, because you care enough to be discussing it) okay with that? Why are you happy to worship a deity who is allowing suffering to happen for some indeterminate length of time if you ultimately can’t justify why he’s waiting to stop it?

If I’ve understood you, your line of thinking is “God could have vanquished Satan ages ago and stopped all the suffering that’s ever happened. He didn’t, but I don’t mind, I still think he’s great.” I’m not asking you why he hasn’t, I’m asking why you don’t mind that he hasn’t. Does that make sense?

I don’t really understand this. He’s going to wait til Judgement Day, judge every single human there’s ever been separately, and then decided whether or not to get rid of evil? Is that what you mean? (Sorry I don’t know more about this!)

@ZebraDanios yes. All he can do about the evil is cast individuals into hell and let good people go to heaven. If he let us be in heaven from birth then we would contaminate it

No, you're not interested in my take on it at all.

I don't see why you so are interested in the opinions of one anonymous person a forum.

I've already said I don't have all the answers' and referred you to people who know more than I do. Instead of doing that you persist in badgering me.

So IMO you're just looking for an argument.

My sister who has a professional career in the field of caring confided in me about an experience she said she will never forget. It took her a year to tell anyone as she felt she would be told she was hallucinating or on drugs etc so she kept it to herself. Her story was about a beautiful sunny day she was a passenger in the car her DH was driving around a calm lake surrounded by hills. Out of the blue she had a vision of a lady on the water in white robes. Her description was it was like looking at a full moon carved into the shape of a lady in robes. She went on to explain as much as anything it was about the feeling it gave her, as if it was totally natural to see this beauty and she had a sense this lady was conveying pity in her demeanor and it felt very spiritual.

My sister never mentioned this to her DH or anyone else until a year later. This vision has never happened again. When she eventually told a minister he said yes, she sometimes appears then carried on. To this day she never talks about it and I feel privileged she told me and what's more I believe her.

@Silverseas1 Yes-dreams can be very real and very comforting.

This'll be why when there's no O neg left, they can save people's lives with a transfusion of communion wine, right?

Oh wait, no. God's blood is only any use for cannibalistic God-worshipping rituals, a blood sacrifice given by God to mollify God's wrath so that God won't eternally torture God's children for the crime of being a flawed creation of God.

That's kind of why I brought it up. One of those blood gifts is genuinely useful, genuinely selfless, and a real thing that actually happens. The other, less so.

Humans are morally better than the Christian God.

Even if you take the worst person who ever lived, add up all the suffering they ever caused to every other person and all those people's descendants, that suffering is still finite — it still won't add up to an infinitesimal fraction of the suffering caused by condemning one single individual to the eternal tortures of hell. Some Christians try to get round this by saying "hell is just separation from God, like they wanted" or "hell just means your soul is destroyed and you stop existing" but that's not biblical. If you don't believe Jesus is telling the truth when he describes it as eternal torment, then why believe any of it? And if you do believe it, your God is a despicable tyrant who willingly causes infinite pain.