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Original poster

If there is a God...why is there...

487 replies

sentinent · 03/08/2023 00:14

As advised by another poster, this post deserves a pot of its own. Something that's been niggling at me for a while now; for those who believe (or even not believe) in the existence of God/a higher power, (I firmly do believe btw), how do we explain children in pain, suffering, getting terminal diseases or being killed??

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6
Hawkins009 · 03/08/2023 00:56

fullbloom87 · 03/08/2023 00:54

@Hawkins009 I believe in a higher power. I don't think we are just meat and bones we die and that's that. I believe we live in a very complex type of 'matrix' (for want of a better word) that is meticulously planned out for us like a story book. Whether that's the Christian god that overseas that I don't know but I definitely believe that there is more to life then what we see.

I do agree that there may be more, for me I prefer more advanced civilisations that are older than humanity, and these civilisations are across the galaxies.

I just don't trust any religious texts or books that humans have wrote or edited.

HaroldMeaker · 03/08/2023 00:58

I like the idea that there is more to life than we understand. I don’t understand ‘God’ .

Changethetoner · 03/08/2023 00:59

God exists, but so does the devil. It is not God who causes us to suffer.

off · 03/08/2023 00:59

But I don't think that you're really talking about people who believe God exists assigning credit for good things or blame for bad things to God, Wanda — I think what you're talking about is people who don't believe that God exists pointing out that the existence of God (at least, the Christian one) is logically inconsistent with the bad things we see around us all the time. Centuries of effort have been put into theodicy with no satisfactory explanation forthcoming. There's no difficulty with reconciling the existence of good with the concept of (the Christian) God, so that doesn't really come up.

fullbloom87 · 03/08/2023 01:00

@Hawkins009 I don't particularly trust them either to be honest. But I agree with some of the quotes in the bible and I do think that if more people followed some of the advice these books give, we'd live in a better world.

JaukiVexnoydi · 03/08/2023 01:00

Why are you holding God responsible for these things?

God created life. For there to be life there must be death, because death and life are intrinsically part of the same process. A system with no death is changeless, no birth, no renewal, no creativity.

Yet the existence of death doesn't require the existence of suffering. Given all the resources available on this planet, there could be no hunger and no war and no poverty if humans could just be unselfish and just only use their fair share of everything. Is God to blame that we choose not to do that?

And if all the human inginuity and creativity and investment that has gone into warfare had instead been directed at medical science had instead gone in to medical research, how many diseases would by now be eliminated? Why would that failure be God's fault?

God chose to create a universe where death exists because life cannot exist without death, and where suffering exists because God is Love and for Love to be valid, the Beloved must be truly free to say no, and to walk away, therefore free will must be possible, therefore suffering must be possible. But to cast us into that situation without caring wouldn't be loving so God placed Gods self right in the middle of that suffering and experienced it first-hand through incarnation as a human and dying in agony in order to not only share in the suffering that is intrinsic to the human condition, but also to transfigure it, and turn it into a bridge between humanity and divinity.

HaroldMeaker · 03/08/2023 01:06

Did God create a ‘system’ of life and death.
How does the Devil fit in then? Devils are found in humans right?
Or is the Devil or sort of nemesis to God ?

Annaishere · 03/08/2023 01:09

The devil believed he was equal to god and refused to worship him

Psyclops · 03/08/2023 01:12

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Silverseas1 · 03/08/2023 01:17

JaukiVexnoydi · 03/08/2023 01:00

Why are you holding God responsible for these things?

God created life. For there to be life there must be death, because death and life are intrinsically part of the same process. A system with no death is changeless, no birth, no renewal, no creativity.

Yet the existence of death doesn't require the existence of suffering. Given all the resources available on this planet, there could be no hunger and no war and no poverty if humans could just be unselfish and just only use their fair share of everything. Is God to blame that we choose not to do that?

And if all the human inginuity and creativity and investment that has gone into warfare had instead been directed at medical science had instead gone in to medical research, how many diseases would by now be eliminated? Why would that failure be God's fault?

God chose to create a universe where death exists because life cannot exist without death, and where suffering exists because God is Love and for Love to be valid, the Beloved must be truly free to say no, and to walk away, therefore free will must be possible, therefore suffering must be possible. But to cast us into that situation without caring wouldn't be loving so God placed Gods self right in the middle of that suffering and experienced it first-hand through incarnation as a human and dying in agony in order to not only share in the suffering that is intrinsic to the human condition, but also to transfigure it, and turn it into a bridge between humanity and divinity.

A brilliant post.

off · 03/08/2023 01:22

Annaishere · 03/08/2023 01:09

The devil believed he was equal to god and refused to worship him

I not only refuse to worship but believe I'm superior to God (as is almost every other human being who's ever lived) — whatever my moral failings, I could never come close to the depravities of the Christian God. (Thankfully, there's no good reason to suppose such a character has ever existed.) And I'm not the devil. So there must be more to it than that…

Ladyj84 · 03/08/2023 01:26

Just a second so you expect god to sort everything the mess humans have created. See if you ask a human to do something for you they expect something back in return right. Yes the damage,chemicals, weaknesses,wars etc etc all man made yet you expect god to say ok let me clean up again for you. It's not god but the devil who rules the world right now but as the Bible says for only a short time then the wicked will be no more. You can't just pick one thing and not invest time into the whys,who's and wants properly. No different to studying at uni do you expect to learn all about science without picking up a book and studying it, cross referencing it and finding the truths out

fullbloom87 · 03/08/2023 01:29

@off wow so you see yourself a higher then a god? Take a look at what's going on around you in the world and in society ffs.

off · 03/08/2023 01:29

I don't expect God to sort anything. Sorting things is really hard when you don't exist.

Christians created the problem of a God whose purported qualities are inconsistent with what we see happening around us. It's been funny seeing them try to contort their beliefs around that fundamental inconsistency for the last couple of thousand years (i.e. the field of theodicy). See: Jauki's post above.

off · 03/08/2023 01:30

fullbloom87 · 03/08/2023 01:29

@off wow so you see yourself a higher then a god? Take a look at what's going on around you in the world and in society ffs.

Yep. Me , you, and everyone I've ever met. Read your Bible.

Annaishere · 03/08/2023 01:40

I had an experience where I could see the singularity beneath the surface of things but I don’t think it was conscious

off · 03/08/2023 01:46

Annaishere · 03/08/2023 01:40

I had an experience where I could see the singularity beneath the surface of things but I don’t think it was conscious

I had something like that once. Turned out it was just lunacy, though. Hope you're better now too.

fullbloom87 · 03/08/2023 01:56

@off well it's useful to know you support pedophiles and murderers.

off · 03/08/2023 02:05

fullbloom87 · 03/08/2023 01:56

@off well it's useful to know you support pedophiles and murderers.

🤣 What are you on about?

fullbloom87 · 03/08/2023 02:17

@off
you, saying everyone you've ever met is better then 'god'. Even if you think god is fictional, surely the fictitious character of a god is Better then a pedophile or a murderer.

ZebraDanios · 03/08/2023 02:37

JaukiVexnoydi · 03/08/2023 01:00

Why are you holding God responsible for these things?

God created life. For there to be life there must be death, because death and life are intrinsically part of the same process. A system with no death is changeless, no birth, no renewal, no creativity.

Yet the existence of death doesn't require the existence of suffering. Given all the resources available on this planet, there could be no hunger and no war and no poverty if humans could just be unselfish and just only use their fair share of everything. Is God to blame that we choose not to do that?

And if all the human inginuity and creativity and investment that has gone into warfare had instead been directed at medical science had instead gone in to medical research, how many diseases would by now be eliminated? Why would that failure be God's fault?

God chose to create a universe where death exists because life cannot exist without death, and where suffering exists because God is Love and for Love to be valid, the Beloved must be truly free to say no, and to walk away, therefore free will must be possible, therefore suffering must be possible. But to cast us into that situation without caring wouldn't be loving so God placed Gods self right in the middle of that suffering and experienced it first-hand through incarnation as a human and dying in agony in order to not only share in the suffering that is intrinsic to the human condition, but also to transfigure it, and turn it into a bridge between humanity and divinity.

I think you’re saying that suffering, evil etc are the fault of humans rather than God. If that’s the case, why didn’t God create humans so that they were better and didn’t cause suffering? (I’m not convinced I understand your final paragraph so apologies if you explained it there.)

ZebraDanios · 03/08/2023 02:41

Ponderingwindow · 03/08/2023 00:33

I’ve long held that if any god does exist, it’s time for a revolution. Doing a horrible job. If any of the major world religions are to be believed also doesn’t truly care about people being good, but instead cares about people flattering his ego.

Yes this has always baffled me too. Seems like God will forgive you for just about anything if you say you’re sorry, but if you don’t believe in him then you’re going straight to Hell. Why is he so much more concerned about how we feel about him than he is about how we act?

Riapia · 03/08/2023 03:59

Before you pray for rain it may be wise to check the weather forecast beforehand. 😉

ShippingNews · 03/08/2023 04:08

WandaWonder · 03/08/2023 00:27

People blame God for bad things but are not as quick to thank God for good

Personally I see the opposite. Religious people are quick to thank god for saving them from a cyclone or cancer or an earthquake, but slow to blame god for creating the situation in the first place.

LordSalem · 03/08/2023 04:10

There's no higher reason for it.
There's a higher nothing, but you won't find that out for certain until you die. That's probably why the myth exists because it must be an awful last few seconds of consciousness when it sinks in that there's fuck all, you're out, time is up and no one's there. Unless you're blessed with a wee little hallucination as the oxygen runs out.
There's no higher nothing for us during life, why does any sane adult think it would be there at the precise moment of their personal death? By all means, devote your life, but there's no guarantee. Just wishful thinking, needless sacrifices and not one religious person can pop back and tell us how right or wrong we are in the end. I'd rather just live for the years I'll have. And I'll end up the exact same.

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