If there is a God...why is there...

[sentinent]

As advised by another poster, this post deserves a pot of its own. Something that's been niggling at me for a while now; for those who believe (or even not believe) in the existence of God/a higher power, (I firmly do believe btw), how do we explain children in pain, suffering, getting terminal diseases or being killed??

If he’s all-knowing then he knew we’d eat the fruit so why did he put it there?

Equally, how do you know the brother who’s training to be a doctor won’t drop out and become a criminal?

I’m also a bit perturbed by the implication here that one life is worth more than another but that’s a different argument…

I don't pretend to understand the mind of God but I would say he gave them free will to make a choice. He did tell them not to eat it but they chose to disobey him.

Not only that, Lucifer means Bringer of Light. Look it up.

I was raised in a pretty Christian environment and had to sing hymns and be told about god by my grandparents. I deep down didn’t believe it from as young as I can remember.

As an adult who’s very into anthropology, sociology and life sciences, what I see in humans is a branch of evolution that’s been a victim of it’s own success and is inherently damaging and negative to literally all other lifeforms on this planet. We are like a cancer. Total wronguns. And this, I believe is largely due to a mix of hubris and a tendency to isolate ourselves from the other lifeforms and ecosystems. And as far as we know we are the only creatures that believe in any sort of god. On this basis, I believe that in terms of both chicken and egg, humans and their desire to believe they are special and particularly monotheistic faith followers are both cause and effect of much of the ills of modern life. These scriptures were written by men to control other men and women and were deliberately designed to promise a release from earthly pain, and comfort from sadness so people wanted to believe them. In truth, it was applied psychology and control by indoctrination. I’m my experience, those who believe our lives are ‘it’ and there is no afterlife and no big plan are far more conscientious in how they treat each other and the planet.

So he knew that giving them free will would cause them to commit genocide at various points in the future and he still thought that was a good idea?

Also, as a PP pointed out, how is a 4-year-old dying of cancer as a result of humans exercising their free will?

It’s surely a metaphor that commiting a sin with the knowledge that it’s evil causes you to fall down into dark worlds

If there is a God I think God created it all then leaves humans to it

If this god were good they certainly would not have created the world as it is. Theists regard humans as having caused the evils of this world - we did not invent cancer, or pain, or the kill or be killed premise on which the world is based. We just found ourselves here and have had to make the best of it.

No-one knows the answer to the question you are posing. Some think they do, but that is belief and not knowledge.

I think we have to accept/embrace the not knowing and just do our best to live our lives with kindness. That way we do no harm and avoid the excesses of organised religions.

I really REALLY hope you have never expressed these abhorrent views to their parents, suggesting their baby died so they could have 'better' one as a replacement??!! WTAF?? Of all the batshit things people write on MN, this has to come pretty high up the list.... If this is how religion works we're definitely all better off without it.

What God did there though was the equivalent of a parent saying “because I said so” though surely. If I say to my daughter “don’t whack your sister, it hurts her” I expect her to listen. If I say “don’t eat that apple because I said so” I can’t really blame her for questioning it.

TBF my knowledge of the Bible is not great, if he did say “don’t eat that apple or you’ll inflict enormous and unimaginable suffering on humanity and eventually destroy the entire planet” then fair enough they shouldn’t have touched it.

Totally agree. I was really shocked by that post on several levels and it amazes me that anyone would think like that.

He said not to eat it or they’d die

This is the flaw across the entire abrahamic faiths. You can allow for preference of one life over another, it’s gods will. It may offer comfort in a few situations but ultimately has been the root justification for all kind of horrendous acts.

Ah, so he just made humans really really stupid then!

I'm not arguing with you.

I am aware of that, I studied Latin. (It's Phospho in Greek BTW)

Lucifer told them god was lying and if they ate the fruit they would be like gods

No, he gave humans free will, and because of that they made unwise choices.

So how do Atheists reconcile themselves to all the suffering in the world?

Still stupid. If one person (who had literally created me) told me doing something would kill me and then some random told me the same thing would make me a god, I’d weigh it up and decided being dead was worse than not being a god so not eating it was the more sensible decision.

But why did God even put the tree there in the first place if he knew it would cause so many problems? If he’s all-knowing he should have seen all this coming and not done it. Presumably he wanted all of this to happen?

But either he didn’t know that that giving them free will would cause suffering to humanity and damage to the whole planet (so not all-knowing) or he didn’t care that it would (so not all-loving)?

“God created life”

No it didn’t.

I’d rather believe bad things just happen by chance than that some divine being deliberately chose to make bad things happen.

So how do Atheists reconcile themselves to all the suffering in the world?

They accept it s simply what is. There is no "reconciling" to do; it is simply the human condition.

The world is predicated on suffering. That jolly bird song we love to listen to is probably an alarm call as they wait for the next predator to come along and gulp them up. Every beautiful view we rave over is full of terrified animals fighting for their survival and waiting to be torn to shreds.

We are no different. Our enemies are cancerous, viral, bacterial etc. This is how the world is. However it was created. this is how it is.

How do theists reconcile themselves to all the suffering in the world?

I think I need to disabuse some people on this thread of some ideas.

Just because someone follows a particular faith does not mean;

1. They know the mind of God (or gods if applicable)
2. They have all the answers.
3. They are perfect people

IMO it not God we need to be worried about, it's Satan.

"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist." Baudelaire

Yes this. “Heartless, witless nature/Will neither care nor know…” - the worst virus or bacterium is just trying to survive, the same as everything else. It doesn’t mean to kill you in the process. To me that’s easier to deal with than a divine force actually creating evil knowing it’s going to have terrible consequences.