Will you make it to Heaven?

[Vincitveritas]

Take the quiz and see!

jesusplusnothing.com/the-heaven-test

It's definitely a bit of a blunt instrument. Just out of interest, what would you describe your beliefs as or is there not really a term that fits?

I'm finding the attempts to sabotage my thread rather amusing. Every post only serves to strengthen my conviction, so do carry on!

I see no sabotage Vincitveritas

No? What would you call it then?

What conviction?

That's good then, you can feel amused and strengthened and others can continue to discuss things. I can't imagine why you would think anyone is setting out to sabotage your thread simply because they are expressing their own views, but you do you.

the closest is probably Qabalistic (as opposed to Kabbalistic), it’s a mixture of things really.

You really don't seem to like me very much - whatever happened to Christian unity?! You're very welcome to start your own thread. It's very bad manners to hijack someone else's and berate the OP, but I suppose that's Mumsnet for you.

Seriously??

I don’t understand many of your comments - your conviction to convert us?

No, that's not it.

Widening it out to be more inclusive of other faiths.

But this thread isn't about other faiths is it - it's about Christianity.

The question you asked it 'Will you make it to Heaven?' If you'd wanted it to be your denomination of the faith only, you should have worded your thread title accordingly because other versions of the afterlife are available.

But is it? It started off with a quiz, will you make it into heaven? The feedback from the quiz were from the perspective of a particular strand of Christian belief. If we are to assume that there is a heaven we could discuss the various philosophies about how you get there, sola fide, good works, paying dodgy religions lots of money (inc the Catholic Church)You could argue that say from a Calvinist Christian belief of double predestination that quiz is completely wrong and contemplating the matter is rather pointless We could discuss that? Or we could discuss what is meant by heaven (which I think we have to a certain extent), again there are various views on this. I would argue mankind is already there(or rather heaven is already here).

I think it’s a really good discussion, I’m rather at a loss on what you want to discuss? Is it how we should all be afraid and live according to the narrow philosophy of that particular strand of religion on the off chance we make it?

re you’re comment to @Mustardseed86 since when have Christians stood together? It’s been divided since day one solidarity has never been part of Christianity.

“kill them all God will know is own” seems to echo through the years

So questioning posters and Christians who don't agree with you should start their own thread? Yes, what a beautiful vision of Christian unity. As for 'berating' you - I think you were very rude to ChickenRat and you now sound rather petulant. I don't think anyone has hijacked or sabotaged your thread, but it's very clear that you don't tolerate disagreement well, which isn't going to serve you very well on an open discussion forum. Then again, the thread would likely have died off ages ago if everyone did agree.

I'm sure I would like you if we met, you're probably a very kind person, but the authoritarian streak you're showcasing on here is a tad off-putting. I don't have any malicious intentions towards you though and I'm genuinely sorry if that's how it comes across.

Thing is @Vincitveritas starting a thread on MN, no matter where, doesn't give you the right to police what is said on it after you have started it, nor does it give you the right to control the direction the direction the thread takes. That's the joy of forums! I've learned a lot on this thread about my own beliefs, the beliefs of others and the beliefs I will never tolerate. It's all good.

Sabotage? Really? 😆

Its not your thread. You do t get to chose what people can talk about, and throw your toys out the pram when people don't say exactly what you want.

If you'd wanted it to be your denomination of the faith only, you should have worded your thread title accordingly because other versions of the afterlife are available.

@pointythings Apart from being broadly protestant, I'm not particularly affiliated to any one denomination. As we've already discussed, there are many different denominations but to be classed as Christian they should all worship Christ and have these beliefs in common:

• Agree that He is both fully human and fully God
• He was born of the Virgin Mary
• He died for our sins, rose from the dead, ascended into Heaven and will return to judge the living and the dead.

These are the basic essentials of Christianity - central doctrines. If a person/group of people don't pass this litmus test they are simply not Christian.

I’m rather at a loss on what you want to discuss?

@OMG12 All the points you mentioned above would be fine. Aggressive questioning about gay and women's rights, Hell, sex, politics, insulting Jesus/God/the Bible etc etc, not so much.

“kill them all God will know is own” seems to echo through the years

You seem to have me down as the Crusader type...

I don't think anyone has hijacked or sabotaged your thread, but it's very clear that you don't tolerate disagreement well, which isn't going to serve you very well on an open discussion forum.

@Mustardseed86 I was talking generally about hijacking and berating. I've been on Mumsnet for a long time and it's very common on this board in particular. There's a number of posters who are quite vocal in their dislike of Christians/ Christianity/God and threads often become a nasty pile on. So yes, too right I'm going to try to police it. It's no wonder most OP's don't return. I have been quite patient considering and given up time I can ill afford to spend, carefully answering the genuine questions.

@shodanlives Speak of the devil. You can’t even be bothered to read the thing properly. That quiz about paganism you mentioned before was posted by pointythings.

Well, I wouldn't describe you as broadly protestant - you are a self confessed Biblical literalist, so that puts you into a more narrow form of protestantism. You also seem to think that you personally have the right to define who is and who is not a Christian - and when people disagree with your definition, you dismiss them as 'not Christian'. It's that arrogance again. People don't like it and will kick off against it; you could and should have anticipated that.

You also did not say that the topic of the thread was to be Christian only.

Lastly, telling people to leave a thread is not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

You don’t want anyone to question about gay and women's rights, Hell, sex, politics, insulting Jesus/God/the Bible etc etc, even though these are key issues and difficulties the Church and religious groups are having to face up to?

And no - you don’t get to police threads!

Speak of the devil. You can’t even be bothered to read the thing properly. That quiz about paganism you mentioned before was posted by pointythings.

I'veread the whole thing. Still doesn't give you the right to say who can help can't post but sure, try to hound people off.

Don't take this the wrong way (which you will anyway) but why Mumsnet? If you only want to talk about Christianity and how great it is, why not join a Christian forum?

But the point it, all of those things relate directly to the question.

to ask a question “will you go to heaven?” Suggests that someone has the answer, someone thinks they have a right to say whether someone will or will not make it into heaven. The quiz sets out a number of concepts and situations which seemingly will dictate whether a person will make the grade. The questions then arise as to why these particular issues Matter, who decides ether people will get into heaven?

the quotation from the Albegensisn crusades sets out the arrogance of one belief system that theirs is the right one and God will agree with them.

@pointythings

you are a self confessed Biblical literalist, so that puts you into a more narrow form of protestantism.

Not the type you're thinking of. I don't believe God created the world in six 24 hour earth days, or that the devil hid dinosaur fossils to trick people, for example.

You also seem to think that you personally have the right to define who is and who is not a Christian

It's not as if I just made it up off the top of my head - these are universally accepted rules across the Christian community. And I should know, having been a part of it my entire life.

You also did not say that the topic of the thread was to be Christian only.

Anyone with a basic grasp of reading comprehension could see that. It should have been obvious after clicking the first link this wasn't about Nirvana, Valhalla or The Elysian Fields - it was about Heaven, as described in the Bible.

Lastly, telling people to leave a thread is not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

And whatever the Christian equivalent of antisemitism/Islamophobia is? I think not.

these are key issues and difficulties the Church and religious groups are having to face up to?

@Parker231 If you were actually interested you could ask your local Vicar or equivalent. I don't have to justify my opinion on these topics and they're not going to change anytime soon. Again, this is not an 'I'm a Christian, ask me anything'.

why Mumsnet? If you only want to talk about Christianity and how great it is, why not join a Christian forum?

@ShodanLives If you had RTFT as you claim, you would already know the answer to that.

who decides whether people will get into heaven?

@OMG12 That would be Jesus.

Ah ok, didn’t realise Jesus was into online quizzes!

Actually, if you believe in God, it’s God that would decide, surely? Matthew 10:32-33 indicates Jesus would have a word with his Dad on behalf of his friends, but that’s about it.

The Bible makes it clear that it is God who forgives (and therefore sticks your name on Peters list).

Jesus is a pawn in this as much as us. In the Bible God sets the rules (however fucked up they are). The quiz is based on Gods rules as revealed to Moses (or at least the ones written in the Old Testament- some would argue that the more important ones were occulted by passing them down through oral tradition of Kabbalah and other earlier forms of Jewish mysticism ). Jesus only confirmed his Dads rules.

Now what are Gods rules, well some would argue that the ones for the majority are the 10 commandments. This might get you into general admission but the chosen ones get into the VIP area.

in Jesus’s ministry it seems apparent he came primarily to save the Israelites, Gods chosen people. Although he helped Gentiles it was Gods Covenant with the Israelites he primarily came to mend (he even warned his disciples not to teach to Gentiles). It gets a bit fuzzy at times which I highly suspect is largely some gymnastics after Paul decided to branch out into non-Jews. In fact the more I think about it, the more I see Paul and Aleister Crowley as being the same.

But if you want to get into heaven your best bet is to become a Jewish mystic who believes Jesus was the son of God (although Jesus was primarily concerned with being the son of Man and spoke about this far more often.