God is the creator so who created god

[Shareornotwhocares]

I’ll nail my colors to the mast first….. I’m not a believer but I also know currently science does not have all the answers to the origins of life

However

I have known Christian’s who believe in god because it answers the two questions we can’t yet answer - where did we come from and what happens when we die

of comfort is gained from that then fine.

however none had got anything plausible to say to the answer to the thread title - if god created us then who created god. It just pushes the unknown back one step in the chain.

@Rollin that yet again a major religion is far over reaching into people’s lives, and not for the good.

That is incorrect.
People have invited the church into their lives and not the other way about.
The rules for conducting exorcisms in the Catholic Church are very strict and it will only be allowed when all other avenues have been exhausted.

God - there is no deity except Him, the Ever-Living, the Self-Sustaining. Neither drowsiness overtakes Him nor sleep. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. Who is it that can intercede with Him except by His permission? He knows what is [presently] before them and what will be after them, and they encompass not a thing of His knowledge except for what He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and their preservation tires Him not. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.

He is God, other than whom there is no deity, Knower of the unseen and the witnessed. He is the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.

He is God, other than whom there is no deity, the Sovereign, the Pure, the Perfection, the Grantor of Security, the Overseer, the Exalted in Might, the Compeller, the Superior. Exalted is God above whatever they associate (partners and offspring) with Him.

He is God, the Creator, the Producer, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

John Lennox talking about the subject via The Veritas Forum:

The one God is uncreated, He is Eternal. So the question does not arise who created God, but rather God in His infinite knowledge and wisdom have not given us the knowledge we human seek. But, God have sent thousands of Prophets throughout time to guide us but as usual, those who think they are wealthy, powerful and knowledgeable ignore the message that those Prophets came with. And those that followed the message have corrupted it over time for their own personal benefits. Be it the learned Rabbis or the Priests.

So, the final revelation of the same Message from the beginning of human beings on earth was revealed in the holy Qur'an.

Those who believe in it, they follow it. And those don't, ignore it and ridicule it because they cannot comprehend it.

The final Judge will be Good, we all will just have to wait and find out who is following the right path and who is on the wrong path.

Hence, God does not compel anyone to believe in Him, He only guides those who want to be guided.

In the Qur'an God tells the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) this:

"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about God except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus the son of Mary, was but a messenger of God and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, God is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is God as Disposer of affairs."

But if there is one God and he sent Jesus as a prophet why did he say Jesus was his son? Or are you saying that part was made up but the rest is OK? Ie the New Testament is accurate except insofar as Jesus is identified as the son of God? Just interested. I don’t believe Jesus was the sin of God except insofar as we are all children of God but would be interested to know how this is dealt with and the reasons Islam says he is not.

Eternity means there is no end, if you think of eternity going in the other direction there is no beginning. God is eternal

The earliest religion(s) had creation epics. Perhaps the earliest being the Akkadian Atrahasis creation epic. In short, Atrahasis tells the story of how the gods created man as a labour-force until eventually one of the top gods, the cruel and capricious Enlil, ultimately decides to eradicate humankind with a flood.

The kinder water god, Enki, does not agree and secretly warns a man - instructing him to repurpose his house to build what can only be described as an Ark.

The Sumerian version of this same story from circa 1600 BCE, has been named “The Eridu Genesis”.

The subsequent Enuma Elish creation epic starring Tiamat and Bel from Mesopotamia also significantly formed the inspiration for the jewish Old Testament creation story.

It is well established that the Old Testament was very influenced by these older religions and texts.

In the widely circulated Enuma Elish, we begin with darkness and void over primordial waters.

These waters having two aspects, the God Apsu is fresh water, below is the demiurge, the Goddess Tiamat who is salt water. From these emerge a generation of younger Gods / Goddesses.

Genesis 1:2: “ Now the earth was unformed and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the spirit of god hovered over the face of the waters.”

Ultimately, the god called Bel, (whose brother Enki had already killed the father Apsu) slays his mother Tiamat and splits Her in two to create the heavens and the earth, bringing order from chaos.

In genesis, “god” divides the abyssian water in two, in the same way that Bel divides Tiamat in two; both result in one half for the heavens/sky and one half for earth.

Proverbs 8:27:
”When he established the heavens, I was there; when he set a circle upon the face of the deep”

Enuma Elish:
”The Lord spread out his net and made it encircle her”

The Mesopotamian goddess Tiamat ultimately became the sea-monster Leviathan in the Jewish development of the tradition. A sea monster at war with Yahweh. Tiamat at war with Bel. In turn of course, Leviathan became known as a demon in medieval christianity.

Further, Hermann Gunkel (1862-1932), an “old testament” scholar, noted that the descriptor “Primordial Deep” written and enumerated in Hebrew Gematria leads to the number 666, the number of the beast, the number of the great serpent in Judaism/Christianity.

In this way, the Goddess of Mesopotamian creation becomes the opposer of god in the new religion of Judaism and this is subsequently extended into the even newer Christianity.

God was created by PEOPLE

The Quran also says that a man can have 4 wives
A wife has to obey a husband
A husband is allowed to hit his wife
Women are less intelligent than men
A wife has to ask permission to invite people into her own home or leave the home
She has to cover her hair and whole body when she goes out
Any country that has a female leader will fail
A muslim is allowed to lie to a non muslim to gain an advantage
A muslim female is only allowed to marry a muslim man
A man can have sex with his wife anytime he wants to she is a "tilth to him"

There’s undoubtedly many overlaps between the Epic of Gilgamesh and stories in Genesis, (although flood stories are wide spread - it seems likely the Hebrew iteration was heavily influenced by the Sumerian/Mesopotamian version) there’s also potential remnants of polytheism in the Old Testament particularly Genisis (arguably the Elohim and the creation of man and Woman “in their (the Eolohim) image they created them” is Genesis 1 rather than the Adam and Eve creation story in Genesis 2.

There have been quite a few demonisations eg Ishtater/Astarte into Astaroth etc.

but I think scholars now agree that 666 is Nero Caesar in Aramaic esp since the discovery of the oldest extract of Revelations amongst the Nag Hamadi texts where it was 616 - Nero Caesar in Latin (might be the other way round can’t remember -brain fog) which does fit in with Revelation being seen as an anti Roman text.

[All] praise is [due] to God, who has sent down upon His Servant [Muḥammad (pbuh)] the Book and has not made therein any deviance.

[He has made it] straight, to warn of severe punishment from Him and to give good tidings to the believers who do righteous deeds that they will have a good reward [i.e., Paradise].

In which they will remain forever

And to warn those who say, "God has taken a son".

They have no knowledge of it, nor had their fathers. Grave is the word that comes out of their mouths; they speak not except a lie.

Then perhaps you would kill yourself through grief over them, [O Muḥammad], if they do not believe in this message, [and] out of sorrow.

Indeed, We have made that which is on the earth adornment for it that We may test them [as to] which of them is best in deed.

Indeed, the example of Jesus to God is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.

Say, [O believers], “We have believed in God and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him.”

But none of that answers the question of why believe in the New Testament except in so far as Jesus states that he is the son of God. Except some dude appeared a few hundred years later and said, actually, no all true except the son of God bit. You could say the anew Testament is somewhat predicated on the whole Jesus son of God bit Why?

But where does it say anything like that in the contemporary sources relating to Jesus?

This is a really helpful book that explains a Christian perspective.

www.amazon.co.uk/Reason-God-Belief-age-scepticism/dp/034097933X

With all due respect. You haven't quite understood the Islamic view of Jesus (peace be upon him) and the Gospel that he came with.

Muslims don't believe in all versions of the current New Testament and Old Testament that what our Jewish and Christian brothers and sisters have. They have been corrupted by man and institutions that is why you find hundreds of contradictions and theology that doesn't make any sense to your average person that are meant to follow God's revelation.

Because they are not the original that God revealed to Moses and Jesus (peace be upon them both).

We go by what have been revealed in the Qur'an about them and we have the Qur'an in the original language it was revealed in to the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him).

It doesn't bother God if no one else believes in the last and final revelation which is the Qur'an. Every person will be answerable to God for themselves, hence there's no compulsion in religion.

There won't any new Prophets coming, only Jesus (peace be upon him) will return to kill the anti Christ and prove to Christians that He was not son of God.

What Christians are following about Jesus is pure conjecture because they don't have anything original or actual speech of Jesus!

God does not have any partners nor any need of offspring as people falsely allege.

God I'd above all such things.

You can never be guided unless God guides you to the straight path.

The only agreement we have as human beings is that we all will die.

Those who do not believe in God or the hereafter and those who do believe will only find out after death.

So live as you wish and die as you wish but the truth will come to pass.

But what evidence is there that the main premise of Jesus, that he was the son of god has been corrupted? Yes translations may have altered some of the meaning, but the fundamental idea hasn’t really, now you have several option, 1. He is literally the son of God, 2. he was physically a man but possessed by the Christ consciousness, it was all allegorical and we are all sons of God equal to Jesus. He was a preacher who got appropriated as the messiah by people fed up with Roman rule, he never existed. Where does being a prophet fit in? Surely contemporary sources are more accurate than some 600 years later? What precisely did he say had been corrupted and why and by whom?

the Quran is a collection of sayings that have been attributed to Mohammed complied about 100 years after his death - likely open to mistranslation as the language used was open to far wider interpretation than Greek (but prob similar to the Hebrew in the Old Testament).

DId the idea Jesus was just a prophet come from revelations from Gabriel or was it man’s reasoning that only God could be divine? Or was it politically motivated to create a monotheistic religion similar to one already established in close neighbours in order to get followers?

There won't any new Prophets coming, only Jesus (peace be upon him) will return to kill the anti Christ and prove to Christians that He was not son of God.

@z4zakaha Salam! I don't know a great deal about the Qur'an and what Muslims believe about the last days. As a Christian I am waiting for Jesus' return. Could you please explain a little more about what you said above - who do you think is the antichrist and why would Jesus killing him mean he isn't the Son of God?

My friend, I'll say it again. Respectfully, you're understanding of Islam and Muslim belief are completely wrong.

You're parroting things without no knowledge. You're mixing the Qur'an, the revelation through angel Gabriel who brought down every single if God's revelations to all the Messengers from Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus ( peace be upon them all) and the Final and last Messenger if God, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and the hadiths (actions and sayings).

This is not the forum to give history lessons nir is it suitable.

I would humbly request that you read up on islamic resources from authentic and reputable sources so that you understand what is Islam and who Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is.

Christiana do not have a single piece of unequivocal evidence going ack to Jesus (peace be upon him) claiming to be Good or the son of God. They have no sure knowledge, all they have is pure conjecture.

Modern day Christians do not follow the Gospels revealed to Jesus but rather they are following Paul, Paul and Paul.

God did not send Paul as His messenger to the children of Israel but he sent Jesus (peace be upon him) but they disbelieved in him and tried to get him killed by the Romans.

But, Jesus was not killed by anyone, God took him up to him and he shall return during end if times. Not as a Christian but as a Muslim (the who submits to the Will of God)

The revelation of Qur'an is to guide humanity back to the straight path and to correct the corruption of earlier scriptures God has given to prophet Moses and Jesus that had been corrupted by the Rabbi's and Priests for worldly gains.

So, those who want to know the truth, it's all there in the Qur'an, in the original Arabic language as it was revealed through angel Gabriel.
The Qur'an is only in Arabic, classical Arabic.

Those who are not versed in classical Arabic can read the meaning in other languages to know that it is the truth from their Lord, the most High.

Those don't want to know who God is or don't care then let them play around and enjoying themselves until death approaches them.

They will then surely find out who was guided and who was not.

Let the believers put their full trust in God, the One True God of all humanity.

As God reminds his Servants that there is no compulsion in religion. Right path is distinct from the wrong and those who firmly grasp the rope (Qur'an) of God then they will surely be rightly guided.

And God knows best.

Wa alaikum as-salaam (And peace be upon you too).

I am paraphrasing, in the Qur'an God informs us that nearing end of times, when corruption and disbelief in God will reach to such a level, one of major signs of coming of the hour is the return of Jesus (peace be upon him) back to earth.

According to the authentic hadiths (sayings and actions of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) we are informed about the Anti-Christ.

It's a long hadith that goes into detail about features of the Anti-Christ, and what he will do etc.

“O people, there has been no Fitnah (trial) greater on this earth from the time that Adam was created till the end of time than that of the Dajjal (Anti-Christ). Every Prophet warned his people of this trial. I am the last of Prophets and you (Muslims) are the last of nations, and he will come forth during this era without a doubt. If he comes out while I am amongst you I will defend every Muslim. But if he comes out after I pass away, then every Muslim will have to defend himself....

He will first emerge from an area between the Greater Syria Area and Iraq. He will go to the east and the west causing problems wherever he goes. O slaves of God, O people, Be firm! I will describe him to you like no prophet has described him.

He will claim to be your God, but you shall not see God in this world. He is one eyed and your God is not one eyed! It is written between his eyes, ‘disbeliever’ every believer will be able to read it whether they are lettered or unlettered.

.....While Muslims are about to perform the Morning Prayer, Jesus would descend, and the Imam would step back to let him lead, but Jesus would push him forward. After the prayers, Jesus would ask that the door be opened and behind it would be the Dajjal and with him 70000 of his troops.They would all be killed and Jesus would rule as a wise and just ruler. He would kill the swine, break the Cross and rule with the laws of Islam.”

And every single person living on earth will believe and testify to the truth that Jesus (peace be upon him) is indeed a servant of God, the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary and not the false claim of som of God.

And God knows best.

If God was a person he would have to live somewhere physical, people assume there is only 'proper' life on earth but there is lots to the whole world/galaxy/universe

So if God was a person how did he create it all?

I personally think Jesus was a normal human born and lived like Dali Lama type life, God an idea created over time by humans to explain how the earth was created

I can't really call myself religious as I find it hard to worship something/someone that does not exist

But I wouldn't call myself athiest or agnostic either

God is an ultimate supreme alien being from another, older world. S/he discovered and entered planet earth (likely wasn't alone), then populated it in his/her own image. All things evolve from his/her first creations

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Its no more far-fetched than believing in God yet giving long non-answers when asked about his/her creation. Although 'I don't know' would be a reasonable answer.

Do you think that’s why the dinosaurs were wiped out ? Because we couldn’t have coexisted and god / an alien race knew this ?

seems only the big threat dinosaurs got obliterated , some smaller non threat to human things survived ? So that could have been a deliberate act to only destroy what needed to go