Struggling with Hell

[ksw0203]

Hi everyone,

I'm a christian but I'm really struggling with the idea of eternal punishment for unbelievers, it just seems very cruel and unlike the God I think I know. Has anyone else struggled with this or has any parts of scripture that could suggest something other than this? I know that Judaism and some sects of early Christianity viewed hell as a temporary punishment that sort of 'refined' people but don't know how reliable this is?

Thanks!

Like who?

The people who say it is.

I haven't seen anyone say that. Your not one of those people who think that atheists hate God are you?

@depremesnil

My hope at the moment is that they don't mean it. The god they think I am talking about is not the same as my God. (The god they accuse me of worshipping is a straw man in their argument.) If they have love in them, they have God in them according to my beliefs so I hope they will be able to recognise God, acknowledge Him and seek Him even if they don't use the same language to describe this as me.

I haven't seen anyone say that. Your not one of those people who think that atheists hate God are you?

I don't truly know people's inner thoughts, all I can do is ask them.

@glimpsing

I haven't seen anyone say that. Your not one of those people who think that atheists hate God are you?

I don't truly know people's inner thoughts, all I can do is ask them.

Has anyone told them they hate god or anything similar?

@depremesnil, read through this thread (and others) and tell me what you think. I don't want to dwell on it.

[quote glimpsing]**@depremesnil, read through this thread (and others) and tell me what you think. I don't want to dwell on it.[/quote]
I have read through the thread and have seen no one saying that they hate god, just that they don't believe in it.

I have read through the thread and have seen no one saying that they hate god, just that they don't believe in it.

Well, that's something. But why argue about the nature of God, heaven and hell if you don't believe they exist?

@glimpsing

I have read through the thread and have seen no one saying that they hate god, just that they don't believe in it.

Well, that's something. But why argue about the nature of God, heaven and hell if you don't believe they exist?

Because others do, and it impacts how they think of and treat others. Some of those people are politicians and law makers.

If you don't believe in God then you're not going to be bothered about going to heaven or hell, if such a place exists.
Personally I'm quite at peace with the fact that physically I'll decompose back into the soil, and the emotional "soul" of me will be the memories that my family and friends have of me.
Heaven and hell just ancient pictorial places that were used to depict a paradise to aim to be let into or a despicable place to fear you into conforming with religious rules.
If you don't believe then frankly you won't care!

Because others do, and it impacts how they think of and treat others. Some of those people are politicians and law makers.

Yes, indeed. But if you only believe, belief exists as belief it doesn't matter. However, if you belief, belief can physically manifest in the material world, in people, in their actions, in their thoughts, in their understanding, in their emotions, even physically in our own bodies in the way emotion and learning affects us physically. Then yes, indeed!

What is more there are people who believe we cannot choose our beliefs. They are a summation of our genetic heritage and the environment. How would you convince them which of their beliefs are good and true?

Yes, indeed. But if you only believe, belief exists as belief it doesn't matter. However, if you belief, belief can physically manifest in the material world, in people, in their actions, in their thoughts, in their understanding, in their emotions, even physically in our own bodies in the way emotion and learning affects us physically. Then yes, indeed!

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

if people think other people are going to and deserve to go to hell, if will affect the way they they treat those people. If that's what you mean by "physical manifest" then yeah.

if people think other people are going to and deserve to go to hell, if will affect the way they they treat those people. If that's what you mean by "physical manifest" then yeah.

@depremesnil, that's one form of physical manifestation. However there are others. If what you believe affects any physical action - that's another. Affects emotion, that's another, as emotions affects us physically (eg flight/fight response) and others, if they empathise for example. Affects learning, that's another as the brain's physiology is affected by the neural networks which are built when learning occurs - affecting thoughts is similar in affect to affecting learning. To be honest belief can physically manifest in a myriad of ways.

@glimpsing

if people think other people are going to and deserve to go to hell, if will affect the way they they treat those people. If that's what you mean by "physical manifest" then yeah.

@depremesnil, that's one form of physical manifestation. However there are others. If what you believe affects any physical action - that's another. Affects emotion, that's another, as emotions affects us physically (eg flight/fight response) and others, if they empathise for example. Affects learning, that's another as the brain's physiology is affected by the neural networks which are built when learning occurs - affecting thoughts is similar in affect to affecting learning. To be honest belief can physically manifest in a myriad of ways.

Hence why you can are what others believe about God and he'll without believing in those things yourself.

Hence why you can are what others believe about God and he'll without believing in those things yourself.

Could you rephrase that? I think predictive text has mucked up the meaning somewhat.

@glimpsing

Hence why you can are what others believe about God and he'll without believing in those things yourself.

Could you rephrase that? I think predictive text has mucked up the meaning somewhat.

That should eb why you can care. I do t believe in God or hell, I care what those who do believe because it impacts the rest of society.

That should eb why you can care. I do t believe in God or hell, I care what those who do believe because it impacts the rest of society.

As I believe, beliefs or lack of them affect society.

Say, for example you did believe, beliefs are involuntary - a product of a combination of genetic inheritance and socialisation. Then there would be little room for hope over the outcomes for someone born in a deeply dysfunctional family to parents who had inheritable health conditions. People perhaps would be tempted to extrapolate the risks (and believe their extrapolations) over what could be expected of people with certain backgrounds and family history of certain conditions. What about growing up in dysfunctional societies or communities? Growing up amongst communities or in countries with different values to our own? Look at the ever widening understanding of what is inherited through genetics - mental health conditions, obesity, cancer,....the list is forever lengthening. This type of thinking creates prejudice.

If you believe we are more than a product of nature and nurture - what is the additional element? Could it be something spiritual? Something which is not a physical phenomenon in itself but affects the physical world as belief does.

Beliefs steer our hopes and hopes are important.

Beliefs also steer society, government.
The foundations of our social structures have been heavily influenced by the christian church in this country. So powerful and intertwined with government.
Which is why women remain in a cess pit.
Inhuman laws against homosexuals, the restriction of women's rights, women's votes, in my lifetime women have been unable to get a loan or credit without the permission of a man.
Marital rape only recognised in the 1990s.
So much inhumane disparity still exists- and the church is responsible.
Greasy little filthy tendrils of chistianity pervade and invade public and private society.

So much inhumane disparity still exists- and the church is responsible

That's not the church I identify with, though. The atrocities you describe were due to false religion. Those in power twisting people's innocent belief in God to their own ends for power, status, money and other disreputable spoils. Jesus fought against it too.

@glimpsing

So much inhumane disparity still exists- and the church is responsible

That's not the church I identify with, though. The atrocities you describe were due to false religion. Those in power twisting people's innocent belief in God to their own ends for power, status, money and other disreputable spoils. Jesus fought against it too.

So the people who do thinks you disagree with aren't really religious. How convenient.

So the people who do thinks you disagree with aren't really religious. How convenient.

Exactly.

It's the " no true scotsman" fallacy.

So the people who do thinks you disagree with aren't really religious. How convenient

🤷‍♀️ I'm not going to agree with belief or behaviour which I think is plainly wrong and which goes against my conscience as a Christian. I don't know why anyone would expect it of me.

speakout, I see you are a regular on the witchcraft thread. Would you agree with every single act which is claimed to be done for the purpose of practicing witchcraft?

I'm not going to agree with belief or behaviour which I think is plainly wrong and which goes against my conscience as a Christian.

Even if the bible supports those beliefs?
The bible speaks plainly.

It supports slavery, misogyny, homophobia.

Do christians who also hold those views not true christians?