surprised to learn people still celebrate Xmas when they understand its origins

[PuppyDogEyes]

I have recently read about the origins of Christmas, and although a muslim, would always participate on a low level (i.e return cards, return merry christmas wishes etc)
But now i know the origins, cannot continue to do this.
However i was having a conversation with a group of friends and old colleagues (a mixture of religions), who all seem to know the origins and still celebrate christmas.
isn't that wrong?

The Trinity is about love. Love given, love received and love shared. It is basic for our understanding of God and our understanding of ourselves as we are made in the image of God ie the image of the Trinity. I can't get my head around the idea of a God without this relationship of devine love.

Hallowedam none of that offends me.

Christmas doesn't offend me.

jesus was jewish.. and if im correct jews did not celebrate birthdays hence arent chrismtmas celebrations (celebrating his birthd) wrong if they are for jesus, as he did not belive in that. should celebrations be done so he would be pleased?

Whether jesus saw himself as god is a matter of theological careers! He describes himself as the Son of God- but then we are all Chidlren of God , so that's a difficult one. Jesus ahs to be distinct from God in some aspects- for example, God sacrificed his Son; and god spoke at the baptism. The trinity is the father, Son, and Spirit; and Jesus is both divine and Human. Taht doesn't mean He had to be God though- in fact I cant see how that would work with other texts. He seemed to clearly see himself as The Son. Perhaps He is best described as an aspect of God? Although IIRC thats considered Heretical.

trinty is about love?? how does that show that jesus was the father, the god and who he prayed too

so many questions?

It doesn't follow that Jesus didnt celebrate birthdays etc etc- Judaism also has strict food alws, and other rules that Jesus was described to have broken or challenged.

Jesus was a Jew but Christians aren't Jews. Its a new religion started by the followers of Christ. Jesus would have celebrated Yom Kipur and Rosh Hashannh as a Jew but Christians don't celebrate those. Christmas is a celebration of the coming of Christ. Its not a Birthday party.

wow, i am starting to struggle keeping up.

dadtobe - i think that the holy trinity is a difficult concept for muslims to understand, as god and prophets is more defined, clear cut in islam.
i've never got my head around it.

dadtob....I know exactly where you are coming from

he didnt describe himself as son of god he said ''son of man'' luke 9:22. can you give me a ref. where he has said i am son of god?

Puppy, glad it doesn't offend you, but why do you now feel so differently about it? Sounds as if you somehow didn't mind Christmas but finding out about the pagan origins has made it somehow unacceptable, and you don't want your baby to have anything to do with it?

(Congratulations on the pregnancy, btw!)

PP

I think to say that Christmas celebrates Jesus' birthday is oversimplifying it, and as we have seen from this thread is confusing the matter. It is a simplification in a way to make children understand it. It is more like celebrating Christs coming into this world, a celebration of his life, and his death.

From a faith perspective, decorating the tree is not an act of faith, eating a good meal is not an act of faith, neither is giving presents. What is an act of faith is to ponder, go to mass, and say thanks for Jesus being born into this world, and be thankful for what he represents, show charity and good will, and for me, bringing gifts of food up to the local convent and have a "chat" with the nuns.

Dadtob, the Gospel of Luke said Mary was told she had been chosen to carry the son of God. Am working on finding a reference for Jesus saying it!

how;s Matthew 3.16-17 strike you?
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Dadtob, of course Mary wasn't the mother of God in any text at all. She was the mother of Jesus.

But you must understand that all religious texts are not meant to be taken literally. Anyone who does so is doing a huge disservice to faith.

I have to say that I find Muslims far more hooked on this black and white crap than Christians are. It's quite exasperating.

No biblical text refers to real people. They refer to the arcane progress of the soul, a secret initiation. All religions, in all countries of the globe, carry the same message. It is obviously a fundamental human need to create religion, and to believe in it.

But essentially, the stuff preached from the pulpit or the mosque is bunkum. All of it.

So bring on the presents. And Merry Christmas to you all!!

Jesus was not the father. God the Father is the Father. Jesus is God the Son. There is also God the Holy Spirit. They are all God. They are all seperate and distinct persons. They are not ingredients. God is love and love demands a relationship. The 3 are united as 1 God. They are not 3 Gods. Its a very tricky concept but is a mystery of faith. Not everything is revealed to us and our words are inadequate to describe it.

The Gospel of Mark quotes God, at Jesus's baptism: "You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." I think Matthew has another reference to God calling Jesus his 'beloved son'. When the Roman soldiers came to arrest Jesus, they asked him if he was the son of God, and he answered: 'You say I am'. On the cross, Jesus cried out 'Father, father, why hast thou forsaken me' IIRC.

islam has all the answers if you look at islam with a open heart you can have all your answers.

islam belives/teaches

there is only one creator, and prophet muhammad is the last messenger.

It's an interpretation- Luke 23:34 "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."
Luke 23:46 "Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit."

Whether one interprets that as My father I suppose varies- if you believe he meant MY aftehr then the Son naturally follows

There is only one creator in Christianity as well. its God aka the Holy Trinity.

"islam has all the answers if you look at islam with a open heart you can have all your answers."

even to questions about the Trinity?

Professor plum - "its not a birthday party"
I love that

thank you Hallowdam.

the Pagan aspect is a huge part of it and is very much a reason why it is wrong in my religion.

To be honest we never celebrated it at home as a kid, and i really don't feel like i missed out. it was something that went on around me but never at home.

i think i just got caught up with culture and never really looked into christmas. but now i have, things surprised me, but what what surprised me more was that my friends already knew and it didn't change what they thought etc.

i just want to be explain traditions properly to my kids. and not just pass everything off under the umbrella of christmas.

did a quick search god called
prophet jacob his son in exodus 4:22-23,
prophet solomen his son in 2nd samuel 8:13-14

in the new testament there are many refs to sons of god other the jesus.

dadtob I firmly beleive that NO religion has all the answers for everyone, just as some cannot beleive in the Trinity, other would find the night journey of Muhammad just as impossibloe a belief. Likewise that Buddha survived on a few garins of rice a day, indeed.

Different religiosn speak to different peole- there is no one size fiots all. Ultimately as long as tthat religion preaches a message of kindness etc (whch they generally do) then it matters very little, although you're not going to believe that obv. Likewise Humanism- it doesn't matter if they believe there is no God, as long as they actively try to work for the good.