Why do you believe?

[Frenchy100]

This is a genuine question. I'm not wanting to be argumentative or anything, am genuinely interested.

It fascinates me, people believing in a god, I struggle to get my head around how/why people would believe in one.

How do you reconcile the belief in a god with all the horrendous things that happen in this world eg murder, rape of kids etc? I always hear religious say that's just because people have free will. But if god is this almighty being that can basically do anything does that mean he 'sits back' and watches those things happen and does nothing?

As I said I am genuinely not flame throwing. I have just never been able to get my head round it. Am genuinely interested in what makes people believe in a god?

Well firstly I'm agnostic because of the reasons you stated but there is a creator theory that makes me think..

If you found a watch on the beach you wonder who put it there, how it was designed and crafted to work independently, it didn't just appear from nowhere. Somebody invented it. Same with the beach itself, where did the rocks, the sand, the crabs, the sea etc come from?
Nature is so intricate and complicated it makes me think there must be a designer, can everything have just evolved from dust? I really don't know enough about science to argue otherwise!
Maybe someone made the earth and left us to it, like planting a seed in the garden and sitting back when the plant gets eaten by a rabbit.

On the other hand my DH asked me who designed the creator so I'm stumped.

I'm agnostic, leaning more towards atheism. I definitely don't believe in the Christian/Jewish/Islamic God because of the reasons you've stated.

I once read a theory that were were created by some toddler God, and we are one of many throw away attempts before they perfected the skill! I quite like that.

That being said if I could choose I would love to have faith. I think it would make life easier for me.

I was brought up a Catholic. I would always say I had a strong faith. When I had Dd1 she was baptised, made her first communion and we attended Mass every week.
My dd was murdered 3yrs ago In tragic circumstances.

If asked, I would still say I was a Catholic, Dd2 was baptised BUT I am no longer a Practicing Catholic

ParkheadParadise - so very sad. I am sorry you have been through this dreadful experience.

As to belief. I am a Don't Know - in fact, further than that, I am a Don't Know How The Hell Anyone Might Think They Know.

I embrace the not knowing as the natural human condition.

I was brought up a Catholic.

I am agnostic, but would love to be a believer. I think it's all a bit silly, tbh.

I can see why people believe, I think it's a bit scary to accept there's a big fat nothing when you die.

One thing I do believe, is that I will see my Dd again when I die.
My mum died 2 yrs after dd. I was with her at the end and told her to tell dd I loved her. She squeezed my hand and passed away peacefully a couple of minutes later.

Atheist here. I believe in what can definitely be proven. But even then human beings get it wrong. If we get it wrong, we should have the good grace to hold up our hands and amend our knowledge of the world.

I also strangely admire theists. Science, philosophy and cultural attitudes keep changing our minds about human beings and the world we live in, but theists tend to stick with their holy texts and refute much that is proven to be true. In Christianity, despite scientific research proving the theory of evolution over and over again, prefer to cling to their creationist stance. They are loyal, and persistent in their standpoint. I can only admire theists for that. (If that sounds sarcastic it isn't meant.)

I used to be quite anti-religion, an atheist fundamentalist if you like. Now I think if your faith makes you happy, well, who am I to try and dismiss it? Too many people are unhappy these days.

I don't like it however, when theists try and foist their beliefs on others. I was guilty of foisting my atheism on others until I realised I was just as bad as those who forced leaflets in my hands in the street, or loudly told me I was going to hell. So I stopped. It's a two way street.

The problem of suffering is one of the hardest things anyone grapples with, including believers.

I don't believe that there are neat answers, and I wouldn't trust anyone that offered them to me. The things people go through, the heart breaking things already mentioned on the thread, they are far too big and horrible for some pat and pious rubbish.

So, with that in mind, I'll answer as a believer. Suffering happens, and will happen whether or not there is a God. That's a pretty inescapable fact. On a purely practical level, there is less suffering among the people around me because I believe in God and this is part of my motivation to make the world better. So I choose to believe there is a God because that's the way I cope with the suffering.

I say choose, but belief is obviously a touch more complicated than that, and the reason I believe specifically Christian beliefs is because I also don't really feel happy with the idea of an absent God, looking on as we use our free will to destroy each other and the world. So I put a lot of store in the idea that Christians call 'the incarnation', which in untechnical language just means God becoming human, and being subject to suffering too.

Now, I know that's a pretty niche and weird idea, but it helps me enormously to feel that there is a God who understands what it means to suffer, suffers even now with those who suffer, and promises to end it at some point.

It's not going to satisfy everyone, and I'm not trying to convince - I offer these thoughts in the same spirit as the OP, as an explanation of why I believe as I do.

I am glad I am not the only one confused!

Firstly parkhead I am SO sorry. You have suffered probably one of the worst things it is possible for a human being to suffer. Faith or not faith, I very much hope you do see your daughter again x

I agree so much with what the rest of you have said. I have no answers for how the world came into being or anything but I just can't get my head round believing there is a god.

eyeswide - I think you have summed a lot up by saying 'life would be easier.' I think that is why a lot of people might believe, to cling onto something rather than just face some of the true horrors in the world.

And like you said Edwinchester - better than believing there is a big fat nothing.

I do find it so strange that really intelligent people believe in god as I think the idea is ludicrous. But then again, I have no other explanation for this world and how we got here etc! If I think about it too deeply it drives me mad and actually freaks me out a little bit.

The other thing I find strange is why do people that believe have this need to try and convert everyone else to believe? I am very much an 'each to their own' kind of person. I don't believe in god but I do respect the views of those that do. I don't need to try and convert believers into non believing, the fact that I don't believe myself is enough for me. Why do believers struggle the other way? Why can't they accept that my belief is just as valid/possible as their belief?

Thanks 'Waterloo' - you sound the same as me now, each to their own. And I appreciate what you say about being able to admire theists

Floral - very interesting post and thanks for explaining why you believe. When you say 'there is less suffering in the people around you because you believe' do you man that literally as it reads? Do you mean that because you believe the people around you don't experience suffering as much? Or am I not reading it correctly. Again to reiterate, not challenging, just interested

The explanation is in the rest of the sentence. It's because I believe in God the way I do that I am motivated to relieve the suffering of those around me, just as others do things to allieviate suffering with other motivations. Everything I do, from volunteering to offering a kind word and a cuppa to someone is because I think that's how I best worship a God who loves everyone.

And, good grief, I don't experience less suffering as a believer, not at all.

Ah right sorry, have read the sentence in the way you have explained now and it makes sense! Sorry. I thought I might not be following it correctly.

I'm not going to embarrass myself and lack of knowledge further by asking about the incarnation bit. I really struggle with that, Jesus being God in human form if I have that right?

Yes, that's right. Christmas, basically

Three short videos with Alan Watts the philosopher speaking:

As an atheist I feel the same.
Sure, humans have "free will". But if any god exists then why allow young children to die of natural causes? Surely if a "worthy" god exists then he would prevent any child from suffering at all? otherwise whats the point in a god? Or just prevent the child from being born if its going to die before it reaches adulthood?

To quote the previous poster before me:
"Everything I do, from volunteering to offering a kind word and a cuppa to someone is because I think that's how I best worship a God who loves everyone."
So, you worship a God, who allows the suffering of innocence via natural environmental disaster or disease, basically in the name of "its all in Gods plan"? Surely that represents no comparison to the devil?
...all because you want eternal peace/fantasy. At ANY cost of your life on living earth.

The idea of a God, is a being who loves and would do anything for its creation - to prosper and live a lovely life. Otherwise you might as well be bending the knee to Hitler or the devil.

As an aside, I think similar to you in the way I behave, kind words, volunteering, helping people in need. But that is just how I want to behave as a decent human being, rather than anything to do with believing in god. I think that is how we all should behave, faith or no faith (wishful thinking I know!)

@LadyMarmylard-If you found a watch on the beach you wonder who put it there, how it was designed and crafted to work independently, it didn't just appear from nowhere. Somebody invented it

I really don't know enough about science to argue otherwise!

Funny that you used the watch example. There's I book I would recommend, by Richard Dawkins, called The Blind Watchmaker, which will answer your watch question, and expand your knowledge of science.

I didn't say 'it's all in God's plan' because that's trite bollocks and I am simply explaining why I believe as I do.

Frenchy100, I don't disagree. We've all got our motivations, and I don't care what they are as long as people are good the each and try and make things better. I'm absolutely not belittling other reasons to do those things, just saying what helps me keep at it in the face of discouragement.

Surely if a "worthy" god exists then he would prevent any child from suffering at all?

This is what I will never understand.

Should be are good to each other in the middle there.

Yes Floral I agree, we both live our lives in similar ways, just for different reasons!

I couldn't sit back and watch a child get abused. I would have to interfere and try and stop it.

Why doesn't god try to stop things?

I no longer have religious belief. I find the idea of the vastness of the universe and my utter insignificance in it very comforting - I came from nothing and will return to nothing. It makes me feel very calm and relieved. I almost look forward to it

Relais - that's another one that freaks me out if I think about it too deeply. The vastness of the Universe!

When I try and get my head around space etc it just gives me a headache.