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Philosophy/religion

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Original poster

Why do you believe?

179 replies

Frenchy100 · 15/02/2019 18:06

This is a genuine question. I'm not wanting to be argumentative or anything, am genuinely interested.

It fascinates me, people believing in a god, I struggle to get my head around how/why people would believe in one.

How do you reconcile the belief in a god with all the horrendous things that happen in this world eg murder, rape of kids etc? I always hear religious say that's just because people have free will. But if god is this almighty being that can basically do anything does that mean he 'sits back' and watches those things happen and does nothing?

As I said I am genuinely not flame throwing. I have just never been able to get my head round it. Am genuinely interested in what makes people believe in a god?

OP posts:
Madhairday · 17/02/2019 18:26

Thanks Vitalogy, and good to see you! Smile

Vitalogy · 17/02/2019 18:36

Good to see you too Madhairday :-)

Cornish83 · 17/02/2019 18:47

I don’t personally believe in any religion but I think the placebo affect of people believing in a higher power enabling them to believe in themselves can only be a positive if that’s what it takes.

speakout · 17/02/2019 19:09

believing in a higher power enabling them to believe in themselves can only be a positive

Do people need permission to believe in hemselves from someone i authority?

I find that idea quite troubling.

Namenic · 17/02/2019 19:24

@noego and @Madhairday- interesting

@headinhands and @wickerman11 - difficult to say as I was raised a Christian but with several non-Christian relatives. I suppose I did want to help people but wouldn’t have gone out of my way if they refused. I have particularly difficult relatives and my attitude was that they should be given their chance but if they refused to stop causing trouble, support should be withdrawn. I began taking Christianity seriously in my teens. I was drawn to the parable of the prodigal son where it irritated me that the prodigal was ‘rewarded’ more than the good son... I learnt over time that it isn’t about the reward (the fatted calf) but the relationship each son has with the father and each other. I suppose that has helped me keep trying to help said difficult relatives despite their actions.

I think the ‘psycho’ tendencies come from a part of me that is suspicious of basing actions on feelings. I find my feelings arbitrary (e.g. preventing me from working hard, helping people as much as I should, making excuses). The driven perfectionism (a personality trait from childhood rather than Christianity) drove me to a breakdown, but I suppose I’ve come out of it kinder, wiser (but maybe still a bit psycho inside!). I am comforted by the intrinsic worth God has of all people - including myself.

Cornish83 · 17/02/2019 20:37

No ’speakout’ people don’t need permission from authority you clearly misunderstood completely so I’ll explain.. if someone doesn’t feel competent in succeeding and believes they have a higher power with them I.e Jesus and that gives them the confidence and belief they can do something then really they are just believing in themselves so having the placebo effect of a higher power or strength to use as courage is a positive thing, so nothing to do with permission just courage.

slippermaiden · 18/02/2019 14:00

I attend a local Quaker meeting, a couple of years ago I plucked up the courage to attend after feeling drawn to it for a while. I just knew it was the right place for me, and have been reading their religious text and the Bible since. I truly believe in God, but find it hard to explain why.

Wickerman11 · 18/02/2019 15:53

@Nameric

So you wouldn't just fuck everyone over if you didn't believe in God. Why do you assume everyone else would?

Vitalogy · 18/02/2019 16:17

You sound like an open and honest person OP. Able to admit your partial understanding of the teachings mentioned. Honesty is part of it. Once you start living your truth things change.

headinhands · 18/02/2019 16:43

Honesty is part of it

So you're more honest than most people? Can you give me an example of this in everyday life?

Vitalogy · 18/02/2019 17:23

So you're more honest than most people? Who knows.

Can you give me an example of this in everyday life? Living how I want to live my life as much as I can. Not how others expect me to live. Being true to myself, whether others like me for who I am or not.

headinhands · 18/02/2019 19:14

Living how I want to live my life as much as I can. Not how others expect me to live. Being true to myself, whether others like me for who I am or not.

Can we have examples please?

Vitalogy · 18/02/2019 20:17

Can you be more specific, a particular subject or question?

headinhands · 18/02/2019 20:24

You chose the subject and example you want.

Vitalogy · 18/02/2019 20:28

I don't need any information. You seem to want some. The logical conclusion from that is that you ask a question.

Namenic · 18/02/2019 20:49

@wickerman - because I think feelings tend to be arbitrary and inconsistent? What if it feels good to do something ‘bad’ ? (Eg if I am annoyed at someone for parking their car in front of mine - I scratch it because it makes me feel good and I persuade myself it will ‘teach’ them not to do it again). One person’s good is another’s bad...

Wickerman11 · 19/02/2019 00:29

@Namenics
How does religion change that? One denomination's good is another's bad.

With the car scratching thing, scratching the car would hurt someone, wouldn't solve anything and for bonus points would be illegal. So I still wouldn't do it, despite not having some medieval style Abrahamic god wagging his finger and threatening me with hell.

What about examples that are a little more clear cut. If someone pissed you of and you knew you could get away with it, would you kill them?

headinhands · 19/02/2019 09:12

because I think feelings tend to be arbitrary and inconsistent?

It's not about feelings, it's about logic too. Look at LGBT rights. It wasn't so long ago that it was punishable by law for two men to have sex. It isn't feelings that have seen a sea change in the law, it was data. It was knowing it doesn't harm anyone else and it's actually pretty shitty to make someone's sexuality a crime. We elect MP's to make decisions for us by looking at the actual facts around an issue.

Currently public support for the death penalty is between 50% to 60%. None of the major political parties support reinstating the practice. As expect its only groups like the BNP, Britain First that have reintroducing state executions as part of their manifesto.

spinabifidamom · 19/02/2019 09:17

It allows me peace. It’s nice to cling to my faith in times of turmoil and trial. I was born into a Christian family and I attended a Christian school not far away. Growing up I went to church every Sunday unless I was unwell.

Namenic · 20/02/2019 06:10

@wickerman - I suppose it’s more about the existence of an absolute as @noego said rather than punishment.

If there is a God and he/she created people and a moral system, we may all have opinions about what that is. Maybe some of us are right, maybe all of us are wrong, maybe some partially right. A positive way to look at it is that we were created this way to be good though we don’t have a full picture of what that is.

If we have no God, then I guess we just have opinions? One person’s good is another’s bad. No one is right. Maybe some things are (un)popular. I can see how a social system evolved. But there is no reason to follow our instincts just because that’s how we evolved - we might end up eating more unhealthy foods or acting on aggressive feelings. Does that make sense?

headinhands · 21/02/2019 08:43

If we have no God, then I guess we just have opinions? One person’s good is another’s bad. No one is right. Maybe some things are (un)popular. I can see how a social system evolved. But there is no reason to follow our instincts just because that’s how we evolved - we might end up eating more unhealthy foods or acting on aggressive feelings. Does that make sense

MP's are elected to look at the data so that laws aren't passed or kept just on the strength of opinion. This is why we see laws being changed even when more than 50% of the electorate would disagree with it such as with the death penalty and lgbt.

It's unhelpful to thing of actions as purely good or bad. It's more about the action that causes least harm.

The fascinating thing is that the government are dragging religion slowly into the modern age. It's not religion that brought about a massive change in the laws about lgbt and so on. You'd think they'd be the trend setters having all that access to a being who is supposedly the most moral being in the universe.

Of course a frank and honest read of the OT shows that you and I are way way more moral than Yahweh

noego · 21/02/2019 16:31

It is said that God has created man in his own image. But it maybe that humankind has created God in the image of humankind.

Thich Nhat Hanh

Namenic · 21/02/2019 22:28

@headinhands - not sure MPs do that much with data as the stuff they come up with is very suspect! But I get the utilitarian aspect - least harm to most people.
I guess most people abide by the golden rule (do to others as you would have them do to you). If there is no good/bad why even bother to do this though?

I do get your point about the Old Testament and I find it hard to think about some parts. I wonder though how people in general thought and acted then. In prehistoric times there was probably a lot of murder etc. Would people have understood death penalty being bad? Especially if there was little infrastructure like prison. But maybe that is patronising to prehistoric people...

@noego - interesting. I do wonder. I find Jesus’ teachings counter intuitive sometimes - the parable of the late workers in the vineyard getting paid the same as those working all day?! It’s puzzling but attractive... but I do believe we’ll probably be surprised when we do fully meet God. I have a couple of questions I’d like to ask.

noego · 22/02/2019 08:30

@Namenic

I have a couple of questions I’d like to ask

Shoot.......

headinhands · 22/02/2019 09:59

If there is no good/bad why even bother to do this though?

While I was growing up I learnt that when I horrible to people it made people horrible to me and I didn't like that so I stopped being horrible because it ended with me feeling horrible. Overtime I got better at handling my feelings and knew being horrible wasn't a good way to act. Knowing this I then imagined others felt the same when people were horrible to them and I wanted them to feel happy.

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