Atheist's corner

[ollieplimsoles]

Can I post this here?

Had a look through some of the other pages and couldn't see anything similar, so starting this off, don't know if ill get many replies but we'll see.

Basically a thread for non believers, skeptics and people who have left religion/ escaped religious cults and turned to atheism.
To chat, friendly respectable debate, and to ask questions. People of faith obviously also welcome!

"Oh and this little gem- they don't vaccinate their son because he told us it interferes with the immune system god gave us, that's why you get all these side effects like eczema, respiratory problems and digestion problems. Even though he also said there was no illness or death before the garden of Eden went tits up so why would god bother with a system to fight disease if none existed..."

This outrages me. If people don't vaccinate because of religious reasons, I see it as wilful negligence.

What worried me the most is that apart from us, she doesn't see any one outside church, if they do homeschool its even less outside involvement in his life. I think its why I stay friends with them, I don't know how much of it she believes either, it appears he's the ringleader but he's more vocal her about it all.

I have close family who are very religious.

The kids attend a school run by the church, they attend church several times a week, they socialise with no non christians. Their parents do not socialsie with any other people outside of their faith. They have no TV. I doubt the kids are even aware of the existence of atheism.

Absolutely agree about stepping in where children are involved. I haven't met any anti-vax Christians, but I've seen pro-lifers take their kids to their protests and yell at anyone who disagrees with them, all while their kids are playing near traffic.

My friend pointed this out to them, to which she was told to mind her own business. Can you believe it?

"That's just goady baiting, Cote"

Serious accusation. Please explain yourself.

Who exactly am I baiting, on a thread for atheists who presumably all agree with me that "God" is a delusion & an imaginary friend for believers?

"If people don't vaccinate because of religious reasons, I see it as wilful negligence."

Sadly, natural selection works in cruel ways. Dumb people tend to have less children who survive into adulthood & have children of their own, which contributes to the evolution of our species (which many of them don't believe in)

Baiting theists. I am not accusing you of being a GF to the people on this thread. Who, in any case, may not have the same position as you. Even discounting DtheD, there are as many positions on atheism as there are on theism. Not all of us are fundamentalist crusaders for atheism, just as not all people of faith are fundamentalist crusaders for theism. (Yes, I'm aware of the choice of word, 'crusaders', giv n the subject matter, but I can't think of a suitable alternative.)

I'm an atheist, I'm now quite militant against religion.

"God is all loving and and all powerful and all knowing. Therefore god creating cancer means god is evil or doesn't exist. Again it's just an implication. We can observe things happen in the world that we don't like (cancer) but this isn't evidence for the proof of God's non-existence"

Arguably, it is evidence that if there is a Creator God, it is not benevolent, omnipotent, and omniscient, as we are told the Abrahamic God is. There is a problem in the logic and it's clear that any two of these attributes might be consistent with the world around us but not all three.

Still, we don't need to disprove the God hypothesis: The onus of proof is on those who claim God exists, not on those who point out that they have no evidence to prove their hypothesis.

cote - by that reasoning the human race would have supreme intelligence.

Intelligence is not always genetic - there is a regression towards the mean.

I'm not sure how helpful the vax/anti vax debate is to this thread.

"fundamentalist crusader for atheism"

Wtf do you mean by that?

I am no fundamentalist (on any topic) let alone a crusading one, and I resent this insult.

You are the one baiting me in a goady manner and might want to stop before I rise to it.

"there are as many positions on atheism as there are on theism"

No, there aren't. There are many different sorts of people who are atheists. But all an atheist is is a person who does not believe that there is a god or gods. Nothing more or less than that.

"cote - by that reasoning the human race would have supreme intelligence."

No, it would just have higher intelligence than 10Ks of years ago.

It is no secret that intelligence is one of the most important traits that law of the jungle selects for (= better at problem solving = higher chance of surviving traps & predators etc), so I don't know what you're arguing.

"Intelligence is not always genetic"

Not entirely, as nurture obviously plays a role, but our current understanding is that it's mostly nature - i.e. genetic.

"all an atheist is is a person who does not believe that there is a god or gods."

All an atheist is someone who has listened to the God story and found it unbelievable.

We don't have to believe that the opposite is true.

All an atheist is someone who has listened to the God story and found it unbelievable.

Not always. There is implicit atheism too. People who have never heard the god stories, or babies.

Not sure what you mean. If one never considers the hypothesis of a Creator God, how would it occur to him to reject it?

The definition of an atheist is someone who does not believe there is a god or gods. That's it. No more, no less.

There is no such thing as an implicit atheist.

Perhaps fu ndamentalist is not quite the right word, but insisting that your way is the right way and that everyone should follow it is unpleasant whether it comes from a theist or atheist POV.

Enjoying showing people that they are wrong is goady.

I have friends who are firm believers, some are converts, some are born agains (not necessarily Christian). With some, we happily discuss religion, faith etc. With some we have learned that, to keep the friendship, there are subjects better left untouched. We don't ignore the fact that we have different views, we just don't debate them. Just as I have friends of different political persuasions. Sometimes the friendship survives, sometimes it doesn't.

I'm not sure how helpful the vax/anti vax debate is to this thread
You're right, didn't want to derail. For me it's an example of how people use religion to justify poor and even dangerous decisions.

I'm interested in something that's come up a few times, which is how isolated the strictly religious are.
When I was growing up, I definitely noticed that we were encouraged to always look within the church for all sources of enjoyment. If you want friends, go to the social group for your age and gender. Want to learn? They can do courses and library trips. As kids especially, we were told it was better to play with other kids from the church. Go to fun groups to learn about the bible, do gymnastics... anything they could do, they would. We even had our own version of brownies/ girl guides, called Caravaners (complete with creepy trips to the woods!).
I think one of the reasons they did this was so that we would associate natural childhood joys with the church. Anything that produces endorphins or any feel good reactions were done with the church. I think that made us feel like we could only get that happiness while we were there, even though that would turn out to be a lie.

Of course that could just be me overthinking things lol, has anyone else any ideas?

I think the arguments start when people of faith refuse to accept that their position is irrational. Because it is-by definition. An Augustine said "Lord, I believe. Help Thou my unbelief"

Theists and atheists can walk together to the edge of the cliff where knowledge currently stops. The theists take the leap of faith- the atheists wait for more knowledge. There's obviously nothing wrong with taking the leap. Problems emerge when they try to say that is is not irrational, and insisting that other people jump with them. There would be no point in theism if it was rational..........

"Enjoying showing people that they are wrong is goady. "

Maybe you should take care to choose your words better because I am no "fundamentalist" and it is not at all "goady" to enjoy winning an argument.

You are basing all this offensive crap on one short tongue-in-cheek comment followed by a smiley

Atheism is not always about the rejection of god, it can mean to be unaware of the idea of god too- hence implicit.

Atheism simply mean the absence of theism. Whether that is through choice or circumstance.

I've already taken back the word 'fundamentalist'.

I find your attitude offensive. You find mine offensive. So shall we fight or accept that we have opposing views? I choose the second, more peaceful option. You may count it a win over me if you choose. I choose not to continue the argument.