Atheist's corner

[ollieplimsoles]

Can I post this here?

Had a look through some of the other pages and couldn't see anything similar, so starting this off, don't know if ill get many replies but we'll see.

Basically a thread for non believers, skeptics and people who have left religion/ escaped religious cults and turned to atheism.
To chat, friendly respectable debate, and to ask questions. People of faith obviously also welcome!

Hi lucky welcome to the thread,

I'm sorry you are in conflict but it takes a lot of integrity to stand up, especially to family, and go against ingrained tradition the way you are, so that's something to be pleased about.

I think when you do decide to ' come out' to your sister, it might be useful to be casual, keep affirming you are the same person inside and still love her, you just no longer believe in god.

Keep in mind that they will probably be very worried about you, they will likely ask if you have 'strayed from the path' assume you are 'angry at god' or at them. If that happens I would recommend leaving the conversation while think about it, and invited them to talk any time about your choice if they wish too, with the understanding that you can both back out of the 'debate' at any time with integrity and respect in tact.

Religion (particularly some brands of Christianity) claim they work for families. I think its the other way round, and this is why so many families are torn apart by religious beliefs, in USA its a very real, very sad issue.

Please come back to the thread for more advice, or update us with how it went!

Thanks Ollie . She's ill at the moment so I don't intend on telling her til she is feeling better. I don't want to make her feel worse.

I feel a bit better able to handle it now though and as Westray said if she gets upset that's her business really and not mine.

I think she will think I'm angry at something though. I can imagine her thinking that something must have happened but honestly I'm the happiest I've been in years.

I feel like my eyes were blurred and now they are clear and I can appreciate everything for what it is and not be worried about gods plan or god working in mysterious ways.

I feel like my eyes were blurred and now they are clear and I can appreciate everything for what it is and not be worried about gods plan or god working in mysterious ways.

Yes - I remember after I stopped believing thinking one accurate line in the Bible is 'know the truth, and the truth shall set you free'. Everything just makes so much more sense once you remove the unnecessary hypothesis of god(s).

I simply evaded the issue of telling my family, because I didn't want to upset them, until DM asked me when DD's christening would be and I had to tell her 'never'.

ollie thanks so much for starting this thread- seems like the only refuge left.
OK to sound off I hope- because I hate religion, Abrahamic is the worst. Christianity especially ( because that is the main influence in the UK)

Social and political structure in this country has been shaped by the church,
Disempowerment of women, misogyny, homophobia, all to do with the church,
At the foot of christianity is original sin, Eve's bad choice- and we will suffer ever more.
Apparently human sacrifice of god's only son should atone for that.
Who even thinks human sacrifice is a good idea?

Christianity is a car crash.

I feel like my eyes were blurred and now they are clear and I can appreciate everything for what it is and not be worried about gods plan or god working in mysterious ways.

Thats exactly how I felt lucky and errol I shared my testimony of atheism on the other thread, but it really didn't occur to me to just not believe, and explore that.

It must be so stifling to have to force everything to make sense with scripture, all the translations and versions and re tellings... If I was god and was capable of all the things the bible explains, I would make it totally clear what the 'rules' were! There would be no grey areas!

I also dont like it when christians have told me 'god sees the bad things in the world and doesn't like it, but he has his plan and it will all work out, you have to trust him' like he's surprised that everything turned to shit, I thought he knew everything?

Christ the questions are endless...

westray I started the thread for people like you, I know their are posters out there who's families have been completely torn apart by religious beliefs, I've seen it in my daily life as well. All we can do is just try and make the world somewhere we want to live in and wait for people to stop waging 'holy war', so we can all have a nice time...

Hi all, glad to have found you!
I've been passively atheist for a while but as DS gets older my views seem to get more and more entrenched that I don't want him being taught things at school that we, as a family, believe to be incorrect. I tried to have this conversation with family because I was worried, but the general consensus was that my world view was going to stop my DS getting the best available education! I see all religion the same so I want him to learn about it, but not take part. Only apparently I'll be "singling him out". any advice?

fluff- what type of school does your DS go to?

Hi fluff we sound quite similar, ive never understood this, when my mum realised that my kindle was full of Dawkins and Hitchens, she said 'you still want her to learn about all different ones dont you?' I asked her why, and she couldn't give me an answer!

I dont think R.E should have its own subject in schools, it should be touched on in general studies or p.s.e discussions with all the other generals.

Unfortunately in the UK, even non faith based schools have to have some form of worship or god talk in a general form.

I would like to see RE replaced by a much broader topic - World Views. So cut out some of the stuff about creation myths and festivals and bring in more challenging and useful material that helps you understand some of the different ways the world can be experienced as an individual and as a society.

It would include religious views and political ideologies of course.

But also cover different innate ways of being – how the world is perceived if you have autism or dyslexia or you're an extrovert or introvert and so on.

Maybe some of these topics are already in the curriculum somewhere else but I just feel - Ollie perhaps I am agreeing with you in this - that a more general approach would be better at increasing understanding and awareness of other people's perspectives.

By the way, does anyone feel a grudging admiration for religious fundamentalists who are prepared to look at their holy texts in a completely unflinching and honest way and take full ownership of the contents?

I agree - I don't think RE should be taught in primary schools.

I'd also like to clarify that there is no such thing as a "non faith" state school in the UK.

The closest we have is non denominational, but of course all schools are require by law to "lead active worship".

There is no escape.

I would like religion taught as part of a broader curriculum to include information on other cultures and as you said Outwith how other people** view the world through their life experience but as I am in Ireland I doubt that will happen any time soon.

Religion is a subject in state exams here. Do you have religion exams in the UK?

I don't feel any admiration for anyone that believes anything an authority figure or old book tells them without thinking it through rationally themselves. I have no problem with people having faith. I know it can be immensely comforting for some people but I can't admire them.

As an aside, kids in primary here are taught myths (for eg. The children of Lir) as part of their history curriculum. As in the stories are actually taught as fact and included in the history book

I don't know where the ** came from

Random double asterisks or carets can crop up if you've deleted something which had been bold or italic respectively, the markup sometimes gets left without text. (Related to the phenomenon of weird bolding on threads discussing exam grades if more than one A* is involved. I've got an 18yo so I'm currently skilled in parsing them.)

As an aside, kids in primary here are taught myths (for eg. The children of Lir) as part of their history curriculum. As in the stories are actually taught as fact and included in the history book

I was thinking how weird, and then remembering some of my own history lessons which were mostly Greek myths.

I think that factual teaching about major religions is a good thing but absolutely noway, nohow should there be worship in schools. Teach kids facts and how to think, not what to think.

By the way, does anyone feel a grudging admiration for religious fundamentalists who are prepared to look at their holy texts in a completely unflinching and honest way and take full ownership of the contents?

I have sometimes felt that in the past, but on the whole I think it requires too much intellectual dishonesty and is such a waste of human intelligence to try to fit reality into the confines of scripture. And nowadays I suspect a lot of people apparently doing this are pretty much just parroting from 'AnswersInGenesis' and the like. I was somewhat impressed the first time I got an answer to 'so who did the sons of Adam and Eve have their kids with?', but you can find stock 'explanations' online.

I think there is more intellectual dishonesty in those who won't simply acknowledge and condemn the unpalatable parts of scripture in a straightforward way but instead spend their time dissembling, obfuscating, reinterpreting and over-intellectualising. I don't agree with the fundamentalists but they and the Sea of Faith brigade are the ones with integrity.

By the way, does anyone feel a grudging admiration for religious fundamentalists who are prepared to look at their holy texts in a completely unflinching and honest way and take full ownership of the contents?

I'm with errol here, I used to think that, and still do to some extent, but that was before I met and debated with my neighbour. This guy is sweet, polite, has a love of nature, history, plays chess exquisitely and speaks a number of languages, he also holds an undergraduate degree in chemistry and is a diverse and inspiring chemist...he is fucking WASTED on young earth creationism...

Yy to teaching them how to think and not what to think, this is a big part of our parent in style. I think if you teach children critical thinking well enough, they can learn that skepticism is a virtue and hopefully not get sucked in to anything based on bad reasons to believe something.

In my day to day life ive experienced that a skeptic is often greeted with rolling eyes, I am when i try to convinced my friends that their houses probably arent haunted so they can sleep at night!

Every day is a school day. Thanks Errol

Its been a long ass Monday today, and got a full week of furious colouring before deadline on the 25th. Leaving this here for serious laughs, language is atrocious, you have been warned!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=gW7607YiBso

Thanks for your replies all! DS isn't in school yet but we have to apply in the autumn. Every primary school around here appears to be C of E and have bible quotes on their websites. I went to a C of E primary school myself, but it didn't appear to be too religious- just the weekly sing song and occasional sermon from the Morris-dancing vicar who had an ...interesting world view 😆

But still, it took me years to work out it was all hogwash.

How refreshing!! Great idea for a thread.
I am surrounded by christians in my family, I am considered a black sheep/off the rails.

Welcome Callie! What denomination of christian are your family?

Hi ollie, my family are Baptists.

Ah right, are you in usa?

No I am in UK. Part of my family does live abroad though.