Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Philosophy/religion

Join our Philosophy forum to discuss religion and spirituality.

Islam is breaking my marriage, is this right?

157 replies

AnotherRandom · 22/12/2014 10:14

My husband and I have been together 10 years and married for 5. He was a Christian but converted to Islam about a year and a half ago. I am a Sikh.

He has told me recently that our marriage is not valid anymore (according to Islam) and that for us to stay together I would need to convert.

We love each other a lot but I feel uncomfortable with this. I feel like I'm being pushed into making a massive decision about my life to save my marriage. It doesn't feel right to change.

He said he doesn't expect me to convert over night but that I should consider the religion. It's all too much for me. I am happy with my belief and my faith in God but Islam is not a way of life that fits in with how I live my life and how I want to live my life.

I don't even know why I'm posting. Is there no way our marriage can continue to work? We have a child and the thought of separation is hurting me so bad.

He won't even share a bed with me anymore or be intimate with me anymore :(

OP posts:
AnotherRandom · 22/12/2014 16:55

Unfortunately that is my thread in relationships regarding the Christmas tree :(

I really do love my husband but I don't know how this can work out. This seems like the last straw.

OP posts:
LynetteScavo · 22/12/2014 16:56

This is one of the most worrying OPs I've read on MN.

OP, your DH is being beyond unreasonable. He has made a decision. He has decided the marriage can't continue if you don't convert and tbh I think you are getting an easy way out of an awful situation. There is nothing for you to decide....you can't just convert to keep someone else happy. I hope you have family support.

confuddledDOTcom · 22/12/2014 17:21

If reading and what he says about Islam isn't moving you then you can be sure you have the right faith or you'd have been swayed.

I just can't get my head around him, it's not,from what you've said, that he's worried about your soul because to some extent I could understand that (NOT this aggressively before anyone picks me up) he seems more worried about his own.

I know personally that the things I believe in are firm, I have changed my mind about certain issues but done so because I realised I didn't like what the first thing was telling me or saying about myself. I would never change my beliefs because someone told me to and if my husband didn't respect that it would be an issue and I don't think even the emotional blackmail of divorce would make me change. One of my biggest beliefs is personal faith, public politics. What I mean is that my faith is about me, how I connect with God etc, my politics are What I believe are right for the world, they are shaped by my faith, by what I think best reflects that bit they're not my faith - this is where American politicians get it wrong and choose the wrong side. The point of my ramble there is this situation would shut me down because it's religious politics.

breaking, without wanting a debate because it's the wrong thread, it talks about during services women's heads being covered which is the norm for many Christians over a certain age, however it talks about if you're shaven (in Corinth the priestesses to Athena were) and if you wore your hair like a crowning glory (which rich Roman women did in competition with each other). It was to A Church and universal meaning can only be taken by understanding that. Most people read the universal meaning as nothing about you should be a statement that is taking away from the purpose of being there. But this thread isn't to debate prostitution.

Apologies for the random caps (I know, I'm the only one complainingBlush ) my pad does it randomly then won't let me change it.

MamaMary · 22/12/2014 17:52

Has he said sorry for what he did to the Christmas tree?

I thought you were going to your parents?

You need to get out of this aabusive relationship asap.

OmnipotentQueenOfTheUniverse · 22/12/2014 17:57

He threw away your xmas tree?

And what bits of the bible does he think aren't followed? It's only the really horrible bits that have been dropped generally or the bizarre bits and even then you can find people following quite extreme versions if you look.

And this bit "He told me as a Muslim man he can be married to 'people of the book' so in other words, a Jewish lady, a Christian or a Muslim. I'm none of them so I don't have a leg to stand on." No that's back to front. he's decided unilaterally that something is going to happen and not taken into account that it is incompatible with family. The way you say you haven't got a leg to stand on makes it sound as if this is in some way your fault - it isn't.

He is being totally unreasonable.

PrimalLass · 22/12/2014 18:01

Random, I've read your other thread. Please don't ignore the fact that your husband is abusive.

AnotherRandom · 22/12/2014 18:04

He apologised for his behaviour in the relationship.

He hasn't apologised about the tree. For those who don't know, he told me to take the Christmas tree down as it's against his religion or he will take it down. I refused, so when I was out, he took it down and I have no clue where he's put it.

I am going to my parent's house on Christmas Eve and spending the night there so we can celebrate Christmas Day together.

I've just spoken to my parents about this new development in our relationship and they have told me what all of you have said. Even if I converted, would he change his controlling ways. No. He is who he is and because I love him so much, this will be painful.

OP posts:
OmnipotentQueenOfTheUniverse · 22/12/2014 18:09

I have just read 1/2 your other thread.

Glad you are going home for xmas and have told your parents and they are supporting you.

Can you stay longer at your parents over the xmas period? And try and have a break and think how to move forward.

Because I think you need to use that break to break up with him and not go back to that relationship.

I won't list the things I read in that 1/2 thread about why I think that, enough people on there told you why. OP, really, he is horrible. He is and has treated you appallingly. You need to split up.

Chocolateteacake · 22/12/2014 18:22

He sounds like a pillock. Is he the type of person who throws himself into little 'projects' - will his relatively new religion be a passing fad?

The imam is talking nonsense. Where is he from? I wonder what his agenda is? If hubby is so keen, speak to another imam - bearing in mind that as in any religion, they range from Mother Theresa to Ian Paisley. Some branches are less enlightened than others.

I married into a muslim family and have never had a minutes bother from anyone (even the more conservative older family members have treated me like an extremely welcome addition). They are all very cultured and well-bred and I'm not (so its not like I'm a Lady marrying into a commonor family!). Noone has ever suggested a conversion to me and they respect my beliefs. He can't 'make' you change your religion.

Chocolateteacake · 22/12/2014 18:24

And bollocks about the tree. Mine is lovely and mil has a nice one too.

Sorry but your husband is a religious fool. I often wonder why converts go weird...

WhatASoddingMess · 22/12/2014 19:16

If your husband is telling you to take the Xmas tree down then that's very strange at at odds with islam's stance of tolerance in religion. You may wish to remind him that the prophet himself and other caliphs after him, allowed the non Muslims to have their religious symbols/statues/temples in the land they ruled over. It's only recent history where we have these uneducated over zealous nutjobs like ISIS. Your husband needs an education and some decent role models. If he is abusive, then you've had a lucky escape. I've seen people convert to islam and sadly some cannot drop bad habits or serious personality flaws.

Chocolateteacake · 22/12/2014 19:55

Maybe - and I don't know the back story here - he is just an abusive and aggressive bully, and has sought out an interpretation of a religion that fits his tendencies?

Some imams are no more than small, ill educated men, inflated with ego and self importance, self appointed and seeking to make others jump to their whims. I suggest he finds an imam who hasn't for his feet in england but head and heart in middle ages Saudi.

TheSporkforeatingkyriarchy · 22/12/2014 20:47

Oh OP hugs I'm glad you can get away to your family for a bit and that they are being supportive. I hope it helps you have a better new year.

As others have said, it is likely just another tool being used to control you. While it isn't uncommon if for converts to be a bit overzealous at first, the overzealousness seems to be mostly pointed at you and what you want than anything else.

As someone who had a radical religious/philosophical rethink years into my marriage, what he's doing isn't fair and is very wrong. As a cornerstone of ones life, such things should involve a lot of conversation with ones partner if they want them to still be in their lives, not run off and ignoring their reasonable concerns. It took me ages to process through mine and my partner was my rock and helped me through and I am much happier for it as are we as a family - I can't imagine trying to process something big like that without doing so and especially not running over my partner in the process if I wanted to keep him around as it sounds your husband has done to you.

deadwitchproject · 22/12/2014 21:37

OP I'm very sorry you're going through this. We have some very close Sikh friends and they, and indeed their entire family, are some of the most loving, welcoming and enlightened people we know. Not relevant to this discussion but I just wanted to acknowledge your faith, which I think is amazing in itself and you don't need to look further afield if you don't want to!

Is it possible he wants out and is putting this out there to justify a split?

A pp mentioned this and I wondered the same. Has he found someone else? Has his imam found someone for him?

peacefuloptimist · 22/12/2014 23:21

OP I agree with other posters that the problem seems to be your husband rather than Islam. Has he based his decision solely on the opinion of this one Imam? As a person who was born muslim I wouldnt advise him to only seek religious counsel from one source. Despite the popular media portrayal that there is only one version of Islam, there are in fact lots of differences of opinion on many issues within the Islamic faith based on how religious texts are interpreted and these differences have traditionally been allowed. There is not necessarily only one right way to do things. It is not in your husband's interest to split up his family (hopefully) so he should get lots of different opinions preferably from muslim scholars and muftis on your situation before making such drastic choices.

An imam is used commonly by muslims as a general term for someone who leads the congregational prayers (even a child can be the imam if he knows how to pray) and unfortunately not all imams are equally qualified to give religious verdicts in terms of being classically trained in Islamic sciences. Also if the imam is not originally from the UK (i.e. born and brought up abroad) his interpretation may be influenced by his own cultural background. There is a very strong argument that muslims should seek out religious verdicts from scholars who live in or have lived in the same society as them as they will have a better understanding of their societal norms, problems etc. I would advise your husband to get opinions from scholars/imams that have been brought up in the Western world at least or even better are converts themselves. There are quite a few I could recommend and I can pm you there names if you like.

If your husband tries to pressure you to convert I would remind him of this verse in the Quran.

'Let there be no compulsion in religion' Holy Quran: Chapter 2, verse 256

Also the following verse tells muslims to accept that not everyone will necessarily believe in Islam and we should not compel them:

“And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed, all of them together. So, will you then compel mankind, until they become believers?” Holy Quran: Chapter 10, verse 99

I would ask your husband does he want you to convert for your benefit or for his? If it is for your own benefit then the choice has to come from you, without pressure being exerted on you. If it is for his benefit then you can superficially convert but your conversion will not be accepted by God anyway if it is not based on real faith. In Islam we have a principle that 'Actions are judged by their intentions' so if your intention in converting is to please your husband and not because you genuinely believe then God knows what is in the hearts. If you really want to remain married to him (I havent read your other thread but from what others have posted here it appears there are some red flags) I would say that you are happy to support him in his new faith and willing to try to understand his faith more in order to do that but you can not guarantee that will lead you to want to adopt his faith.

I dont think your situation is as hopeless as you fear. If you follow a very literal interpretation of the text then yes it only mentions that it is permissible to marry women from the other Abrahamic faiths (namely jews and christian). However if you interpret it by trying to understand the underlying reasons for that you will see that the Quran allows that because they are monotheistic faiths. So despite the differences between the three Abrahamic religions the fact that they share the same core belief in one god means there is a compatibility there which is not shared with polytheistic religions. For example in general christians and jews would not have idols in their homes or engage in other activities that may cause you to compromise that core belief in one god. I hope that makes sense. Sikhism is not mentioned because it is a much younger religion then Islam, however you would have to look at the teachings of sikhism to see whether it fell in to the monotheistic or polytheistic category. If it is monotheistic there may be more flexibility but you would need to consult a muslim scholar on that.

Also even if you do follow that very literal interpretation of the text he should give you time to research for yourself and decide before he starts issuing ultimatums. It is not as black and white when your relationship began before your husband became a muslim and any imam should be able to recognise that and deal with you sensitively. The daughter of the Prophet Muhammed PBUH was married to a polytheist for many years even after she became a muslim. She had got married to him before her father started his mission as a prophet and began preaching Islam. They did eventually divorce but the Prophet Muhammed PBUH did not force her to leave her husband straightaway and he was sensitive to his daughter's emotions towards him even after she left her husband. Her husband did convert to Islam eventually but this was after they had been separated for 6 years and he then asked her to remarry him. You can read about their story below.

muslimahatpeace.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/the-beautiful-poignant-love-story-of-zainab-bint-muhammad-and-abu-al-aas-ibn-rabee-ra/

Finally (I know this is going to be a massively long post but bear with me) I would let your husband know of another hadith which a very important islamic principle is based upon. The hadith is:

Abu Musa Al-Ashari reported: Whenever the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, would send his companions on a mission, he would say, “Give glad tidings, and do not scare people away. Make things easy, and do not make things difficult.”

The interpretation of this is that you should not go to extremes in religious matters if there is an easier approach. If he can find a religious opinion that would enable you to stay together then he should follow that one as that would make life easier for you, your children and him.

Hope that helps.

BreakingDad77 · 23/12/2014 09:36

The xmas tree is crazy, when i was in the middle east there was lots of trees up. It was ironic as when leaving at Dubai/Bahrain airport etc at xmas there were trees, santa on a sleigh moving up and down and then you come back to Heathrow and there is nothing.

AnotherRandom · 23/12/2014 10:05

Thank you all again for the replies.

peacefuloptimist could you PM the names of those scholars/imams please? He has only based this opinion on the basis of one imam. I spoke to him last night and told him he should seek advice from more people before putting us in this situation. He agreed.

Like I've said before, nothing is coming from inside me to wan to change my beliefs. It's coming from him. He says he wants the best for me and that he wants us to stay together. I do too but this is asking too much of me :(

deadwitchproject thank you for your kind words. I love my religion and feel content with it. I believe in god and live my life the best way I can.

To those who think he is trying to use this as a way out, he really isn't. He wants the relationship to remain as it is. He has never given me reason to doubt his faithfulness to me, we both know each other's pass codes and use each other's phones whenever the need arises so nothing is hidden. His iPad has his emails set up and he has nothing hidden. We are very open with each other. No financial control, all ok. He just has general controlling tendencies and these have been mentioned in my other thread.

I feel like I'm going around in circles. One minute I'm thinking this can't work because I don't want to convert, but then he speaks to me and I feel overwhelmed and guilty that I should be feeling something towards his religion. I can't force it. Then I start to worry that I'm making a bad decision.

Like peacefuloptimist said, I feel as though if I changed to save my marriage, god will know in my heart the change didn't come from me and I will be living a lie.

I have spoken to my husband and he knows I am going to my parents for Christmas. He originally said no and that I should stay our house. He then said if I go I will be like my aunty who used to come down and overstay her welcome and become a nuisance to everyone. I then explained to him that since getting married, 5 years ago, I have never stayed the night at my parent's house so one night will not make me an annoying guest. He just doesn't like the idea of me not being in the home. He said it's hard enough us having to stay in separate beds without me then staying in a different house. He then said he didn't like the idea of our daughter celebrating Christmas. Problem is, we got married being of different faiths so he knew very well that our children will learn about both of our beliefs and traditions. And now he is trying to control it so she doesn't partake in anything that isn't about Islam.

Sorry this post is all so jumbled, also apologies for any mistakes I've made. I'm having a hard time processing my thoughts.

OP posts:
Dressingdown1 · 23/12/2014 14:01

Hi OP, sorry that you are having problems with your DH, he does sound controlling.

If I remember correctly from your other thread, at one time he was a very strict Christian. Now he is a Muslim. What if he changes his mind again? Will you convert with him if he does? Just saying.....

Wishing you all the best for a peaceful Christmas with your lovely family.

storytopper · 23/12/2014 16:09

So many red flags in your last post OP - bottom paragraph.

-He said "no" to you going to your parents for Christmas - he was laying down the law
-He tried to convince you that you would outstay your welcome - very undermining - he is trying to separate you from your Sikh family
-He doesn't like you not being in the home
-He doesn't like you not being in the same bed - but that is his choice because you won't convert to Islam
-He doesn't want your daughter to celebrate Christmas - although he was a Christian when you married.

If a friend described her husband like this, what would you say to her?

It seems to me that he is a controlling person who has chosen to adopt an extreme form of Islam and to follow an Imam with extreme and inflexible views because it suits him to manipulate and isolate you.

What are you and you DD gaining by having him in your lives?

PicandMinx · 23/12/2014 16:19

Run away OP. Run away and don't look back.

Chocolateteacake · 23/12/2014 17:24

Is he a needy type in general? I wonder what his relationship with his own parents is like.

His mate the imam, I am sure, will turn out to be a manipulative hardliner. People like this are dangerous, especially if someone has a personality where they get their teeth into something and won't let go. Give us your money, get a new wife, start dressing like a medieval Saudi, grow a beard...

It really sounds like hubby is 'going through a phase', looking for something in his life that gives him absolute structure and format. Shame its not knitting or morris dancing.

Has he an addictive personality? I would try to get him to seek answers from a wide range of scholars (maybe even religions - has he studied your religion in depth?) and distance himself from the current 'teacher'. Maybe, like an infatuation, he will appear less charismatic from a distance? Its like when your child starts hanging around with the 'bad influence' kid at school.

AnotherRandom · 23/12/2014 23:06

If a friend described her husband like that to me, I would tell her to stick with her gut feeling and do what is right, problem is, this gets manipulated and you're left not knowing what is actually right for you. I am currently blinded by the fact I love him and care for him and it pains me to think we won't be spending the rest of our lives together as we had promised in our vows.

We are still in separate rooms, it's all so shit. The most affection I get is a hug. I'm actually exhausted by this all and cannot wait to spend time away from the house. I also feel like I need time alone even without my daughter so I can think about wtf is happening to my life.

My husband has a good relationship with his parents however has been brought up having everything done by his mum. His expectations of women are that they do most things around the house which is why we used to get in a lot of conflict.

OP posts:
wiltingfast · 23/12/2014 23:16

personally I would be deeply uncomfortable with a person who didn't know his own mind and was taking his views from someone or or something external. The manipulation would also be v abhorrent for me.

He wouldn't treat you like this if he loved and respected you. It's not any more valid because it is apparently being predicated on some "religious" crisis he's having. How much worse will it get if you validate his behaviour?

Sorry OP.

loraflora · 24/12/2014 12:23

Having read the other thread too, it is clear that religion is not the only issue. You are secure in your own faith and it would be wrong for you to convert. What worries me is that he was violent in the past and controlling now. You have absolutely no guarantee that he won't get physical again. If he wants out, you will have had a lucky escape. It may hurt now, but better that than the long term damage from staying.

Chocolateteacake · 24/12/2014 15:31

It doesn't sound like religion is the issue here. It sounds as if he has found a version of a religion that fits his world view and makes sense to him and his personality.

If life with this man is a rollercoaster with his moods, temperament and whims, then it will be a hard road, and I'm just not sure that 'I love him' is enough.

I wonder what his parents think of his new found religion, and if he is preaching to them too.