How do you forgive someone who isn't sorry they hurt you? Is it really that important to forgive?

[ElizaPickford]

I've just finished reading The Railway Man and it is ultimately a book about forgiveness. It got me thinking - forgiveness was obviously the right thing for the main character to do, no doubt made easier by the fact that the person he needed to forgive was desperately sorry and had spent much of his life trying to atone.

I'm not directly trying to relate my situation to the one portrayed in that book - however I've been struggling for a long time with the fact that I was betrayed by one of my parents and have been badly damaged on several levels by their actions to me throughout my life. I no longer have anything to do with them but I do think about them often and find myself struggling with the idea of forgiveness.

One one level, I would love to be free of all the feelings I still have of resentment for what has gone on and suspect I would be more at peace if I could forgive. However, I know that from a logical perspective that I don't know how to forgive. I can say that I do but ultimately I am still left sad and angry and forgiveness does not feel authentic. What makes it worse is that the person I feel I should forgive actively does not give one tiny shit about their behaviour - they think that they tried their best and "if that's not good enough then tough shit." There is no salvaging the relationship at all I don't think - I've tried but it is completely one way traffic and I'm not a masochist.

So the question is - is it possible? Has anyone done it? Or do I need to just reconcile myself to this feeling of sadness that underlies everything I do for the rest of my life? How important is forgiveness anyway - is it mentally safer to remember that whatever happens this person cannot be trusted and that even if they were sorry I need to keep my guard up?

I think I find it hard to see that my children are normal because I wasn't.

Is it normal to be horrible to your siblings all the time though?

What I miss most since having kids is quiet and time to read a book.

We were horrible to each other a lot of the time, in front of our parents, probably vying for their attention. However we were also loyal ( parents probably didn't realise at the time) and would collude to prevent parents going mad when we broke stuff for example, we would fix damage to fixtures and fittings that we had caused by messing about when parents were out. A lot of these fixes were genius and the damage never came to light. We also would defend each other against bullies.

Re reading/ quiet time early on in my DC's time I used to take extended baths / toilet visits whilst my DH was in. Otherwise could you get someone to look after them regularly whilst you visit the library?

It is normal itsfab ...there was a thread recently along the lines of 'what horrible things did you do to your siblings?' Shocking stuff but it all mostly turned out ok . How old are the dc's? Will you get some time to yourself back next week?

I go to school 30-45 minutes early, partly to park but the upside of that means reading time. I have missed that with the schools being shut and by the evening I am too tired to concentrate.

The kids are 13, 11 and nine. The middle one has been pretty unkind to the younger at school. Siding with kids in the class rather than her brother . They are all at different schools now. Maybe that will help.

Oh, it can be difficult if there is peer pressure and 11 is a funny age for this. There is such a lot that goes on at 11. I also remember my brother 'showing off' to his friends and annoying me and visa versa. When I think back we really could be quite horrible to each other sometimes. Yet as adults we are friends and our families socialise together.

I think the different schools will probably give it all time to cool off.

I keep hearing it all gets better when they are grown up. Lovely. I get all the crap then they get to be best mates when they live in their own houses!

There were some lovely times too, amongst all our crappy behaviour. This is why you have to focus on the positives sometimes. Is there stuff that you enjoy doing together? Times you laugh together?

I think a lot of our conflicts were over chores and who got to choose what was on TV and parent's permissiveness/ attention. So if you can manage to minimise the conflict that arises in these areas you could be onto a winner..

Off the top of my head the biggest issue is DS2 wants to play with DS1 and DD and they don't want him anywhere near them most of the time .

Aw, your poor DS2. Can you invite some of his friends over? Or take him to an activity? What does he like doing?

Due to my being ill and him having to move schools twice we haven't got any local friends. DS1 had one but I think that has fizzled out. Usually we meet up with my two oldest school friends up North and all the children get along but we can't afford to do that this time. I have started saving the odd fiver for next school holidays so we can do more. Swimming is nearly £20 so it soon mounts up.

I need to get the kids settled in school - one is a new school (secondary) - and then make a plan for our future. I am capable, I just need to stop moaning. Look after myself better so I am less tired and start finding the old me who had lots of friends and was fun to be me in the hope that means DS2 gets some friends.

Local kids are either much older and younger, there are none locally of his ages.

Hope all goes well for you and your DC. I think you are on the right tracks concerning looking after yourself so you are less tired etc. Take care.

I have had trouble with two seperate families.

A ) One family I was very close too and I did a lot for them over the years,I couldn't have been nicer and more helpful.I had the opinion that they thought a lot of me too.

B ) Another family who are trouble and nasty and just not very nice people.

Both these families lets say have caused a lot of upset for me and my family.
If both A and B apoligised for there behaviour then I would forgive B but not A.

But you don't know what they've had to put up with that's made them behave the way they do. Also people cope with tings in different ways, or don't manage to cope very well, and this can affect their behaviour.

I'm just trying to say, be careful about blaming.

tings?

Sounds like you are justifying there, Miranda. Some of the things being done to people on this thread are totally non justifiable in my view.

I don't think you really can justify wrong doing because it is wrong, hurtful. People commit awful acts because they are flawed, damaged in some way. Even if they are functioning well on other levels the fact that they have done something damaging shows that they are flawed in the way they operate. Like a broken machine which causes it to malfunction dangerously.

Sometimes they may mend and be repentant and not go on causing such devastation. Sometimes they may not.

I forgive purely because they are damaged, they are malfunctioning as human beings - not thinking or acting correctly. This does not mean a person should not protect themselves and others from the damage the perpetrators can cause.

Itsfab - My comment was directed to cleanasawhistle's post about two families who'd upset her. Not justifying child abuse etc., although sometimes by knowing more of the perpetrators' circumstances might lead us to understand why they commit the offences they do.

I understood it might be about cleanasawhistle's posts but my comment still stands in my opinion. I am not interested in why people abuse. It doesn't help the victim ime. It doesn't make it go away.

Miranda I think the scary thing about attempting to understand, is that people may not want to put themselves too exactly in a perpetrators shoes, in order to understand / empathize.

There is a fear of losing yourself, no one wants to experience the same thoughts and feelings as a perpetrator that committed unthinkably awful acts.

With something so dark, it does take a strength to empathize emotionally and cognitively, but also be able to detach and be compassionate. People may have to heal a little first.

It's why method actors find some characters so difficult and are 'haunted' by them...

Miranda I knew family A very well thats why I could never forgive them.There are no excuses for their actions.

Family B are a different story,bad parenting, dragged up however you want to put it but they don't know any better,they were never friends, thats is why I would be willing to forgive some of that family.

I just can't get how anyone can understand why a person would assault a child.

Itsfab...thats it,the memories don't go away,the upset, the stress etc are still there.

I am also sure if family A asked for forgiveness it would be to make them feel better and not me.

Itsfab Horrible I know,

Reading a lot about brain physiology helped me. How brain pathways really alter perception, brain function, the way our whole bodies function, hormones etc and the knock on effects. So much so, some psychologists would question free will. Although I believe in free will, but do think altered brain physiology can make it harder for some people to do the right thing....

I am never going to accept that people can't help but do the wrong thing, can't help break the law, etc.

Itsfab

Well, insanity can change a person...altered perceptions and all that. It can even cause hallucinations. There are degrees. We don't even know all of what people's brains can do or how the brain works.

And I can appreciate you don't want to get inside their heads...

I think you need to heal first and feel safe.