How do you forgive someone who isn't sorry they hurt you? Is it really that important to forgive?

[ElizaPickford]

I've just finished reading The Railway Man and it is ultimately a book about forgiveness. It got me thinking - forgiveness was obviously the right thing for the main character to do, no doubt made easier by the fact that the person he needed to forgive was desperately sorry and had spent much of his life trying to atone.

I'm not directly trying to relate my situation to the one portrayed in that book - however I've been struggling for a long time with the fact that I was betrayed by one of my parents and have been badly damaged on several levels by their actions to me throughout my life. I no longer have anything to do with them but I do think about them often and find myself struggling with the idea of forgiveness.

One one level, I would love to be free of all the feelings I still have of resentment for what has gone on and suspect I would be more at peace if I could forgive. However, I know that from a logical perspective that I don't know how to forgive. I can say that I do but ultimately I am still left sad and angry and forgiveness does not feel authentic. What makes it worse is that the person I feel I should forgive actively does not give one tiny shit about their behaviour - they think that they tried their best and "if that's not good enough then tough shit." There is no salvaging the relationship at all I don't think - I've tried but it is completely one way traffic and I'm not a masochist.

So the question is - is it possible? Has anyone done it? Or do I need to just reconcile myself to this feeling of sadness that underlies everything I do for the rest of my life? How important is forgiveness anyway - is it mentally safer to remember that whatever happens this person cannot be trusted and that even if they were sorry I need to keep my guard up?

Sleep there are absolutely no positives to what happened to me. Horrific to think any of it was a positive part of my life. It has totally ruined my life, led me to take a serious attempt on my life and completely screwed up my future too.

I just live because I have children and can't leave them without a mum, albeit a crap one.

Combust Do you see there being something to gain by not forgiving? If not forgiving is not a 'negative thing' in your opinion, do you see it as a positive thing? Or a positive thing in certain circumstances? If so, what are the positives, as you see them?

For the people who aren't being 'eaten up with bitterness' but feel they haven't forgiven I'd say if you really don't feel bitter at all then you've forgiven beautifully, but not forgotten.

It is entirely possible to not be eaten up at the same time as not forgiving.

I haven't forgiven. Believe me, I have not & never will. I am not eaten up.

When I said that there needs to be forgiveness available, from someone at least, in order for repentance to take place, otherwise repentance becomes a futile act, I was talking generally. The forgiveness need not necessarily come from the victim

So what? Someone else can forgive my mother for what she did, on my behalf? No thanks. She doesn't deserve to be forgiven for what she did. And no one can give her that on my behalf. It would mean nothing.

If you really wanted to punish them you'd choose not to go and bleed to death Do you realise how fucking stupid that sounds? If I was stabbed I would go to hospital so I didn't DIE, not because I don't want to punish the person who did it! And by punish, I mean by the law, not myself.

capsium - You don't have to justify your decisions to me Itsfab.

You said this earlier...yet here you are, asking combust to justify!

So stop asking everyone else to! Very nicely, back off! You have no idea what we have lived though, you have pester itsfab & now conbust.

I am pretty sure the op didn't come here for a lecture, or to have to justify her feelings, it is pretty low to badger posters who are trying to help her.

You don't understand our reluctance to forgive. that's fine, but stop turning this into your crusade to convert our thinking.

Why is there this assumption that unless we forgive then we are destroying ourselves? It's simply not true is it. I don't want to forgive, I don't see that as a negative thing No, it's not true at all. And it isn't a negative thing, as long as we are at peace with our choices.

different I am asking, for the purpose of seeking to understand better. I am not asking to justify.

Somebody once told me that the Greek word for forgiveness in the New Testament is the same word for untying a knot. That makes sense. Where forgiveness does not take place there is a negative sense in which the two parties are locked together: one the prisoner of the other, both remaining with unfinished business. Where the journey of forgiveness is taking place, both parties are freed to live their lives.

Fr Michael Lapsley, SSM

Institute of Healing Memories

In another article also talks about forgiveness being a choice, and that actually, rather than telling someone they have to forgive, that we should just be listening to them, they have a story that needs to be told, telling the story is part of the healing process.

No one has no idea of what anyone has lived through unless they share the experience. You have no idea of what I have lived through, either, different. I am honestly not attempting to judge you, at all, I am not qualified. I am just trying to understand better.

capsium I find your attitude very negative and patronising.

I know you do, combust. You have told me before, but not exactly why though.

Capsicum - your attempt at trying to understand is making you intrusive. They have asked you to back off. So back off.

There is absolutely NO requirement for you to understand. None at all.

Oh and repentance is not a futile act if they are not forgiven by the victim, the perpetrator has to somehow forgive themselves. Repentance is part of that.

Well I apologise for being intrusive then. It is difficult to recognize the boundaries sometimes on an internet forum where everyone is asking questions. But I can stop asking, if my questions are causing offense, they weren't meant to offend. I know there is no requirement for me to understand, but without this understanding, it is very easy make the odd blunder here and there.

Just remember that this is not a debate. Other people have no requirement to address each and every point in an argument.

Froot

Oh and repentance is not a futile act if they are not forgiven by the victim, the perpetrator has to somehow forgive themselves. Repentance is part of that.

I acknowledged this in my 8.16 post, which I posted in order to clarify what I said earlier. (Does not seem to have worked though).

When I said that there needs to be forgiveness available, from someone at least, in order for repentance to take place, otherwise repentance becomes a futile act, I was talking generally. The forgiveness need not necessarily come from the victim. Although if taken to the extreme and nobody every forgave, society would be very different.

So I acknowledge the forgiveness, which enables repentance, does not have to come from the victim, rather it just has to come from somewhere, this could include the perpetrator.

No, that wasn't clear at all. Forgiveness from any 3rd party is very different to forgiveness from the perpetrator themselves. What you said sounded more like forgiveness from society as a whole, perhaps the vicitm's family, even the perpetrators family and loved ones.

To me, forgiveness in these circumstances is more about letting it go, letting the pain, the hurt, the destructiveness of the actions, all of it, go. Being at peace with yourself, and embracing the benefits of the past, ie the strength you develop, your keener judge of character, your empathy for others. It is not necessarily linked with the standard view of 'forgiveness', ie forgiving the perpetrator their actions. The perpetrator ceases to have meaning to you.

It's why I like the quote I put in so much - it is the untying of the knot, that has bound you to the perpetrator. Truly releasing yourself from their grasp.

Surely forgiveness isn't really possible unless someone is contrite?

"If you really wanted to punish them you'd choose not to go and bleed to death Do you realise how fucking stupid that sounds? If I was stabbed I would go to hospital so I didn't DIE, not because I don't want to punish the person who did it! And by punish, I mean by the law, not myself."

If you've read the rest of my post you'll see you've summed up my point in a nutshell. It would be fucking stupid but people do it every day, not with their lives but with the hurt they're carrying around from someone who wronged them. So many people refuse to forgive and let go of the hurt they've been caused (let go, NOT forget or say it's ok) that they're constantly 'getting stabbed' to use my analogy but they won't try and get healed because somehow that would be doing too much of a favour to the person who hurt them. They need to keep hurting to 'prove' how bad it was, the 'hah, look, I died so now you're a murderer' comparison when that's completely missing the point.

I've personally witnessed people refusing to have a positive change in their lives, even when handed to them on a plate, because it would mean they'd moved on (again, not forgotten, just moved on) from the hurt an incident/person had inflicted. That is stupid.

You WOULD go to hospital to get healed even if that made the other person feel a little better because you care more about how YOU feel and how YOUR life is left. Exactly the same with forgiveness - you forgive to make YOUR life better and to heal you, not because you want the other person to feel any better. IMO it's not saying for a moment 'what that person did is ok/I let them off', it's saying 'what that person did is not going to influence my life any more'. It's as if someone gave you a poster showing how you'd got hurt and you carried it around for ages to prove how bad that person was then one day you choose to put it away because it's a PITA carrying it around. It doesn't make what happened ok but it makes you feel better because you don't have to deal with the hurt every day.

I've said in this post and the last that it's my opinion, so feel free to disagree with it, but I feel if you really aren't carrying any bitterness about the person/situation then you have forgiven and if you have an issue with that then we have to agree to disagree. But forgiveness is not about the other person, it's of no benefit to them and it's not doing them any sort of favour. I've forgiven stuff that I will never forget and the natural consequences of what that person did (such as losing trust etc) may never go away - forgetting what they did would be a massive favour to them but forgiving it is a massive favour to me.

Badvoc

Surely forgiveness isn't really possible unless someone is contrite?

I think it is. Because if the perpetrator genuinely cannot appreciate what they have done wrong, or genuinely does not care that they have done wrong, I see this as evidence of a flaw within them. This flaw affects their ability to respond correctly - thus diminishing their responsibility.

But if someone doesn't repent their actions, how is it possible to offer forgiveness?

capsium Your "asking" & "understanding better" is coming across as badgering though, don't you see that?

XmasMenace As I have said before, forgiveness isn't going to magically erase that hurt, is it?

People still hurt after forgiveness. If I forgave my mother, that doesn't make what she did suddenly less pain full.

So what is in it for me? Nothing.

For her, thinking that what she did wasn't hurtful/harmful/was justified.

No thanks.

To truly be repentant you don't need the carrot of forgiveness.

capsium Your "asking" & "understanding better" is coming across as badgering though, don't you see that?

Not entirely, different, otherwise I would not have done it. I can only really go on what you and others who do not wish to forgive have said. As I have said I don't fully understand why you think I am badgering, because I am not seeking to judge you. Even if I did start to judge, it would be momentary, because I believe in forgiving people, whether they are repentant or not.

Terrier

To truly be repentant you don't need the carrot of forgiveness

Repent means to change your ways. If you are totally unforgiven, even by yourself, it means that the wrongdoing can never leave you, therefore change is impossible. You are forever flawed by it. (This is the being unforgiven in the most extreme sense though.)

different If a person is forgiven it does not means their actions were justified. It means they needed forgiveness because they were wrong.