How do you resolve conflicting religious parenting

[Contemplates]

My husband doesn't want our children to be allowed access to both of our (differing) religious views, only his.

He is atheistic and I wanted to introduce our preschooler to Sunday school if he wanted to try it.

He loves preschool and wanted to see what this was all about too, and I had always been open about the fact I intended to encourage exploring God as an alternative to atheism, without forcing anything.

Obviously his Dad's alternative viewpoint is also and equally well known in our household. However I don't silence my husband the way I feel he is trying to silence me and I'm trying to remain balanced and fair.

This morning he was saying how he didn't want our son to attend Sunday school as he doesn't like it; which led to our son saying he didn't want to go anymore. So this morning we went to the park instead

Has anyone experienced this parental conflict before and how did you deal with it? There must be some balanced compromise that we can reach, while still enabling our children freedom to make their own choices.

I am still staggered that the OP said my advice was good. This has never happened on MN before .

Clearly this is not a thread about whether god exists or whether atheism is a faith (which clearly it isn't), so let's keep on topic.

OP - how do you intend to give that compromise? Are you going to be happy for your DH to spend 2 hours a day explaining that it is extremely unlikely that god exists and providing arguments as to why this is the case?

This is hard, especially with little ones and actually becomes easier as they get older and can vote with their feet. I too have a husband who does not share my faith although he has always been supportive of it.

Have you discussed perhaps doing a week on week off whilst your son is little with your DH doing things with him on the week off so, as he becomes older, your DS can decide which he wants? Mine are older now and tend to opt in and out on a weekly basis. I would prefer they came with me but can live with the fact that sometimes they don't and I am fully expecting that as they hit teenage years it will dwindle further, but church will always be there if they wish to go back.

I agree with the poster above who pointed out that this can be a fabulous way if learning about respecting the views of others and how to live peaceably with those who don't. A great breeder of listening skills for life.

It is essentially a compromise. Both of you will have to accept that your child will be exposed to both views but, like the rest of us, he will find his own way. I think it is important that you both agree in ways to explain your views without doing down the other's, if your son can see the mutual respect for the other person to hold a differing view then what a great lesson for life.

What would be achieved by "1 week on/1 week off"?

In practice, what would happen would be OP would tell the preschooler (3 year old?) about God, whose son is J Christ, who likes to be worshipped in this way and that etc and then her DH would tell him all that is a pile of poo lies.

What he will likely learn from that exercise is that mummy's stories are not true and/or that daddy & mummy don't agree on some stuff. Or that reality is subjective.

Religious education (i.e. bringing DC in a religion) cannot succeed unless both parents agree with it, or at least tolerate it. When one parent is determined to undermine religious upbringing, I don't see how the other parent can make it happen.

Cote - I know a few adults who had one parent who was religious and one who was not who did have a very strong faith as adults, and often found their faith a little younger than most, because being forced to question it made them make their minds up that they did believe.

But the bit I think would be hard is if the OP doesn't get to go to church if she doesn't take DS, I was struck by that more than anything, no one went, it wasn't that she went on her own and her DH took DS to the park instead, his actions seem to have stopped her going too.

CoreDAzur I don't agree. It can be much more organic than you describe.

My parents have different beliefs and even those have changed throughout their lives. We did not go church services as a family apart from christenings, weddings, funerals and maybe a Carol concert. However I knew about God from and early age, my mother and grandmother told me stories from the Bible and sang hymns and our family has always been open to lively debate, about religion, politics and everything else in between, at all times. Then I learnt more from RE at school and there was lively discussion in our lessons too. More at university. I studied English and my course tutors recommended some Bible study as well to help understand themes and symbolism.

It was when I was older though, that I seriously started to pursue my Christian beliefs and was completely my own choice.

In your case, I'm guessing that you didn't have one adult who actively opposed religious upbringing and was determined to undermine any effort in that direction, like OP's DH.

... one parent, I mean.

One of my dear friends is Catholic while her husband is not religious. She takes DC to church on Sunday, to Sunday school, and they go to a Catholic school (not that common where we live).

All that is possible because her husband is not bothered if DC grow up Catholic. That does not appear to be the case in OP's family.

No, but my mother was a practicing Roman Catholic pretty much until she married my father, who was raised C of E and went to Sunday school but whose parents were not obviously religious - I'm not entirely sure of their exact beliefs.

My father's beliefs (I think) have changed. He has described his beliefs most recently as atheist, but at one point did used to read the King James Bible and has recommended to me, from what I recall, in the past.

Personally if my DC asks questions I answer them the best I can, honestly and candidly. My husband does the same, although he is not as comfortable discussing beliefs as I am, but does sometimes. My husband will ask questions, regarding beliefs, more than anything.

Whatever the case in the OP's home, she and her DH need to sit down and talk about this and agree on a course of action together. I think what will be key to a successful compromise will be their respect for oneanother.

I agree Dione. I suppose what I was trying to say is that Sunday School is not the only way a child can learn about religious belief.

I get the feeling that OP and her DH have never talked on this subject. Surely anyone who has had even an introductory conversation with an atheist would not say stuff like "DH is atheistic ".

OP - Your DH might be OK with leaving religious education until later in your DCs' lives, when they can form opinions & research on their own. That could be a path to explore, rather than fighting over whether or not your DS can go to church at the age of 3.

Actually, in one case, his dad was very forthright in his atheist views, but his son was a very committed Christian by 13/14, and still is very involved in the church in his 30s.

I attended a woman bible study group, in our smaller sub group of 9 woman, only one other grew up with religious parents like I did, and I'm a different denomination to my parents. Basically, parental influence against religion doesn't automatically mean someone will grow up atheist, in the same way being brought up in a very religious family doesn't guarantee a strong faith as an adult.

atthestrokeoftwelve Tue 25-Mar-14 08:14:50 Contemplates you are talking as if athiesm is a faith

I disagree. Nothing I have said suggests I consider athiesm as a faith. I actually see an athiest as a faithLESS person. THe opposite of a believer. An UNbeliever.

However there are 2 types of athiest (broadly speaking). Those who aggressively ridicule a different world view to their own, and those who are simply happy to live and let live, and just not believe in a God themselves. If you are the easy-going type then you will understand that I fully accept your position and don't seek to change it. But leave me alone with mine too, please!

*Hullygully Tue 25-Mar-14 08:23:42
"Contemplates, ...But yes, I can see that it does not relate to your personal dilemma. Sometimes, however, other elements meander in and out of discussions."
So you mean you can't just see a simple question on Mumsnet and answer it? You have to go off-thread and say unhelpful and unrelated opinions about fairies and not having time of day with people who have a different viewpoint in life to you? Nice.

Hullygully Tue 25-Mar-14 08:24:59
And as I said earlier, and as at the says above, in comparing atheism with faith, you are not comparing like with like, it is a nonsense to suggest they can be regarded as such.

THe world indoctrination was used; I simply offered the correct interpretation of that word, which means more than just in relation to God. It can relate to opinions non-God-related. That was what I wanted to point out.

Still not helpful to your marriage, but hey ho. Glad you are such a nice caring soul, Hully!

Nocomet Tue 25-Mar-14 08:55:47
I think you have to ask what is he afraid will happen if your DS goes to Sunday school?

I did, and it was fruitful. We came to a much better level of understanding. We looked on paper at the different angles, not an exhaustive list of course!

1. On the one hand we looked at the outcome of what if God is taught and IS REAL (such as a relationship with God and the peace that comes with that, or the promise of eternal life, a strong moral compass taught or help in times of trouble and a purpose for life, even in hard times etc).
2. And then we looked at the outcome of if God is taught and is NOT REAL (such as wasted Sunday mornings and morals taught that don't actually matter, struggle to find purpose in life especially when times are really hard, and a the let-down of believing in something that turns out not to be true - a bit like father christmas etc)
3. And then we looked at the outcome of if God is NOT taught and is REAL, (no eternal life with God, no peace with God in this life, no help from God or prayers and meditation on the encouraging parts of the bible in times of trouble, or living according to your own rules and moral compass and no sense of purpose in difficulties etc).
4. And then we looked at the outcome of if God is NOT taught and is NOT REAL, and in this case there isn't too much loss as it's all pretty pointless because we all go up in smoke, never to be seen or heard of again.

ANd finally when we looked at the costs versus the benefits of faith in someone who could or could not exist, it became evident that there are really very few loses and there is all the chance of gain spiritually in all 4 categories. So in short, nothing to be threatened by. Especially in a loving and balanced home where alternative viewpoints are respected even if not agreed with.

Which by the way is what I would hope from any sensible and rational adult!

atthestrokeoftwelve Tue 25-Mar-14 09:08:02
I am not sure if a compromise is achievable or desirable. It may leave a child in a very confused situation, having lots of contradictary ieas flying around. Crikey. That sounds pretty unhealthy to shield a child from alternative viewpoints or compromises. Not what I'd consider as balanced and it's not what I am looking for. I said in my OP that I wanted a balanced and fair outcome.

thegreenheartofmanyroundabouts thanks for your understanding of the importance of compromise and being able to discuss (nicely) differing viewpoints in life.

*MaryWestmacott Tue 25-Mar-14 09:33:21
One thing that struck me, was that you didn't go to church either on Sunday morning, or did you manage to get to a later service? Why, if your DS doesn't want to go to church with you at your DH's suggestion, does that mean you don't go to church either and you take your DS to the park?

From here, it looks like your DH is trying to stop you both practicing faith, he gets a say in his DS, but not in his DW's faith.*

You are absolutely spot-on, That's exactly what happened. But you see, he had me over a barrel because I had always said I would never seek to pressurise children into learning about God. Until his Dad was so forcefully negative (while standing right over his head at the breakfast table), he had looked forward to going. And so I didn't discuss it with DS any further but gave him a lovely morning in the park, dodging showers, while his Dad slept in bed.

DH started off believing that while he didn't have faith, Christianity is cultural too, fine for any DCs to go to church etc. then he came to church with me when DS was born and suddenly got that it is actually against his views

AS I said at 08:02, this was our situation too. We talked extensively about differences like this and he and said he is athiestic which means HE doesn't believe in God, but equally doesn't care if other people want to. Like DioneTheDiabolist said at 10:54, "atheism is simply non-belief in God". He see's it like choosing a football team to support and everyone chooses their own team. Live and let live. But then he changed his mind.

*CoteDAzur Tue 25-Mar-14 11:41:21
Have you not talked about this before you had kids, to see if common ground was possible? You know, around the time when you start talking about how many children you would like to have, etc. Yes, if you bothered to read at 08:02 you'd see I made that clear!

technodad there's always a first time for everything ;)

OP - how do you intend to give that compromise? Are you going to be happy for your DH to spend 2 hours a day explaining that it is extremely unlikely that god exists and providing arguments as to why this is the case?

He might not do it for 2 hours a day (that would be extreme for even the extreme!), but certainly he can say what he wants. He knows that. Just as, so can I.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

capsium
It was when I was older though, that I seriously started to pursue my Christian beliefs and was completely my own choice.
I can't agree more. I don't have the same belief I was brought up with, and neither does my husband. We all rightly decide for ourselves.

CoteDAzur I get the feeling that OP and her DH have never talked on this subject. You get the wrong feeling then. Of course we have. If you bothered to read my posts correctly you'd have seen that first thing this morning!

OP, chill.

That's great if your dh is now fine with Sunday school.

Personally, I wouldn't be convinced by your cost/benefit analysis, but I'm not married to you!

Cote you ask what I think would be gained by one week on one week off if the other person undermined it by saying what the other believed was lies. I guess nothing in such a scenario other than a child learning to ridicule the views of others, however I was talking about such a compromise done with mutual respect for each other's beliefs.

I think I outlined above what I believe would be gained by it in such a scenario. The OP is looking for practical suggestions and I was just seeking to help.

I agree ginger. I don't want to teach our kids to ridicule people different to them. I would really prefer them to live and let live.

Live and let live yes- but I have had to undo a lot of the indoctrination done by my children's school.
My DD thought the Noah's ark story was a history lesson- it must the truthful after all- her teacher told her.
Literally every week I have had to unpick and discuss with my children religious ideas.
That's not live and let live- the school have no right to be leading children into religious ways of thinking.
"Live and let live" would be to allow these developing minds to be free of religious ideology.

That is your opinion and of course you are entitled to it.

I wouldn't knock you for it either, even if I disagree with you.

Hmm 'free of religious idealogy' suggests without knowing it exists.

What about they are taught about what it is, ie that it forms part of some very ancient writings, what people believe about it - making it clear it is a belief and they can choose whether to believe it, or not?

^ I think I am right in thinking this aligns with how religious education is meant to taught be in this country? Which I am happy with, religion is part of history and culture.

No Capsium, I don't agree. Leading active worship is not the same as objective religious education. Scools have a legal obligation to "lead active worship" which in our school includes readings from the bible, prayer, prayer, song and regular visits from the minister to give sermons.

Would you be happy if your children werew taught to recite verses from the Koran or taught how to pray to Allah in school?

Yes, atthestroke, it would be nice if us atheists could opt our children out of Sunday school type stuff in schools :(

atthestroke oh sorry! thought you were talking about a lesson.

Regarding the worship I would not particularly want my children to be taught to worship other god(s), I understand your sentiment there, and I would be opting them out of worship. If the school handled the opt out badly I would talk to them / complain or ultimately look for a different school.

Sad isn't it - the thing is we shouldn't have to. I have already "opted out" by sending my children to non-denominational schools. Sadly the church still has quite a control over school, that religious indoctrination still happens- and indeed is a requirement.
I don't want my children to have to be removed from class because they are doing a bible study lesson, or to have to remove them from assemblies where they will miss out on a lot of other school life, awards, certificates, school announcements and presentations.

I have already "opted out" - I don't want to have to remove them further.