How do you resolve conflicting religious parenting

[Contemplates]

My husband doesn't want our children to be allowed access to both of our (differing) religious views, only his.

He is atheistic and I wanted to introduce our preschooler to Sunday school if he wanted to try it.

He loves preschool and wanted to see what this was all about too, and I had always been open about the fact I intended to encourage exploring God as an alternative to atheism, without forcing anything.

Obviously his Dad's alternative viewpoint is also and equally well known in our household. However I don't silence my husband the way I feel he is trying to silence me and I'm trying to remain balanced and fair.

This morning he was saying how he didn't want our son to attend Sunday school as he doesn't like it; which led to our son saying he didn't want to go anymore. So this morning we went to the park instead

Has anyone experienced this parental conflict before and how did you deal with it? There must be some balanced compromise that we can reach, while still enabling our children freedom to make their own choices.

Techno, I didn't say that the OP should not compromise.. I too believe that they should respect eachother and compromise.

I couldn't marry someone who was religious either. We wouldn't get to the second date. I have no religious close friends either.

Headinhands asked where are the 22% on Mumsnet?

I looked at that article, and two things came out of it. One was that it wasn't at all clear what questions the survey had asked, and the reporting made it seem initially as if 22% of the British population were young earth creationists, although a closer read suggests that this is probably not the case -- more that they think there must be 'some kind of design'.

The second was the reported statement that 'evolution is very badly taught in schools'; and I concur with this. As part of my day job teaching Victorian culture and history at undergraduate and postgraduate level, I have on numerous occasions read On the Origin of Species with students and taught them about Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection. On each occasion a significant proportion seem never to have encountered the central propositions of the theory before, and they are nearly all normally very surprised at how central randomness is to Darwin's ideas. These are not fundamentalist Christian students -- they are normally atheist- or agnostic-identifying modern people. Yet many have only the vaguest notion of what evolution by natural selection is all about, and most think that it comprehends some form of adaptation (it doesn't) or teleology or progress (it doesn't); most are surprised to find that in this work Darwin doesn't mention human beings, and bored by the endless detail of Darwin's research on, among other things, racing pigeons.

Greenheart I think that article is too mealy-mouthed and apologises needlessly. Let's not forget that Darwin had a state funeral in Westminster Abbey, courtesy of the Church of England, and that most clerics in the Church of England had accepted evolution as a fact by the time of Darwin's death.

Would all the time wasters please politely disappear back from whichever rock you crawled under an stop banging on about whether you would marry me or not!

That was not the reason I asked for help and is, as I'm sure you've guessed, not helpful.

And thanks to you who have given balanced views just as I'd asked.

So what are you going to do OP?

Contemplates no one has thought about marrying you.

The point being made is that for some having faith or lack can be a very crucial and fundamental aspect to who we are and how we can relate to someone close.
Of course for some couples it may not matter, their virews may be weakly held or they may not be comitted in their faith enough for it to matter.
Or sometimes couples can avoid having discussions about faith or athiesm, only for the divisions to surface once children come along.

I think ultimately if you want your children to have "religious freedom" then you bring them up without faith, no indoctrination and allow them to choose for themselves when they are adults. Athiesm does not indoctrinate. religions does.

I will "crawl back under my rock" now.

Intelligent design is creationism nimminy. It's merely been rebranded to make it sound less ridiculous. And as it happens I did see a Christian defend creationism of sorts over on a different thread just earlier along with a claim of the NT being historically accurate. I think it was the thread about 'what Christians believe' if anyone wants to take the baton up while I'm at work today?

Technodad put it nicely on the post at Mon 24-Mar-14 20:19:07

As well as the OP's DH marrying someone of faith, the OP also married an atheist. and ....They married each other, so respect each other's views and either compromise equally

That is what I have said clearly was my aim in my OP where I said my aim was to "remain balanced and fair" and "there must be some balanced compromise that we can reach".

And as for those who were talking about whether they would marry someone who believes in God like the OP.... hmmm. Lets see.

Hullygully Mon 24-Mar-14 20:28:07
No, I wouldn't marry anyone who believed in anything supernatural. [LIKE THE OP] I simply couldn't respect them.

atthestrokeoftwelve Mon 24-Mar-14 20:43:03
I couldn't marry someone who was religious either. [LIKE THE OP?!!!!] We wouldn't get to the second date. I have no religious close friends either.

So, to reiterate, when you say "atthestrokeoftwelve Tue 25-Mar-14 06:44:31
Contemplates no one has thought about marrying you.", you are actually talking about someone like me and like I said, this is not helpful. My OP actually asked to hear from anyone who has experienced this problem and how they dealt with it, clearly it doesn't apply to you!

Or sometimes couples can avoid having discussions about faith or athiesm, only for the divisions to surface once children come along. We had discussed it but he changed his views once the children arrived, not me.

And as for your views on indoctrination? The dictionary definition of the word is ^in·doc·tri·nate [in-dok-truh-neyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), in·doc·tri·nat·ed, in·doc·tri·nat·ing.
1.
to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., especially to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view.^

This can apply to athiestic principles, ideology or point of view just as much as theistic principles, ideology or point of view.

And if you want to dispute this, you would be saying athiesim isn't your POINT OF VIEW?

WhosLookingAfterCourtney Tue 25-Mar-14 06:28:01
So what are you going to do OP? take the kids the preschool now and try to find time to come back later today to answer that, as it's a longer reply than I currently have time for.

Contemplates you are talking as if athiesm is a faith- it's not.
Athiesm is about critical thinking and not accepting ideology without evidence. It's the opposite of faith.

Athiesm does not "instruct in doctrine"- how can it insruct- there is no doctrine to share. Atheism is Not an Ideology:
An ideology is any "body of doctrine, myth, belief, etc., that guides an individual, social movement, institution, class, or large group." There are two key elements necessary for an ideology: it must be a group of ideas or beliefs and this group must provide guidance. Neither is true of atheism. First, atheism is by itself just the absence of belief in gods; it's not even a single belief, much less a body of beliefs. Second, atheism by itself offers no guidance on moral, social, or political matters. Atheism, like theism, can be part of an ideology, but neither can be an ideology by themselves.

Contemplates,

I wasn't thinking about your marriage, I was answering a question posed by Dione.

But yes, I can see that it does not relate to your personal dilemma. Sometimes, however, other elements meander in and out of discussions. Let us not be monomaniacal.

And as I said earlier, and as at the says above, in comparing atheism with faith, you are not comparing like with like, it is a nonsense to suggest they can be regarded as such.

Still not helpful to your marriage, but hey ho.

I think you have to ask what is he afraid will happen if your DS goes to Sunday school?

A couple of hours a week is hardly likely to turn a small child into a born again American style evangelical (that's so alien to British culture you really need both parents to live that life style and possibly HE)

If he finds a quiet faith in God and life after death makes the world seem a safer place as he's growing up, is that such a bad thing.

Is growing up with an understanding of why religion is important to other people, a bad thing.

Is coming to understand that for many people denying your faith is betraying your family (hence DH and I could never change our views) and possibly your ethnicity, wrong.

Do any of these things mean your DS will take a strong personal faith into adult life. I doubt it.

DCs of mixed marriages are the luckiest of all DCs they actually get to choose whether faith works for them.

I am not sure if a compromise is achievable or desirable. It may leave a child in a very confused situation, having lots of contradictary ieas flying around.
It is in effect leaving the antagonism of the situation up to the child which is unfair. Just because the adults can't agree why should the child be dumped with the fallout.

One of the things they don't tell you about parenting is that it makes you look hard at your own beliefs and values as you are now responsible for a new person in the form of the beloved child. There are bound to be conflicts and readjustments as two people from different families and backgrounds and personalities try and work through the simplest things such as where to spend Christmas and the right and proper way to make tea. Religion and politics are all part of this.

In the OP's family there is a wonderful opportunity for their child to grow up knowing that people can talk, debate and decide to differ but still stay friends. This is an incredible life skill and is going to take some work and discussion by OP and her husband to work through.

There is a really good book by Sara Savage and Eolene Boyd-Macmillan called 'Conflict in Relationships.' They are psychologists and they have done work in conflict transformation work with fundamentalist youth so they know what they are talking about.

Or nocomet you have to ask what you are afraid of if you don't take DS to S school. Just as valid.

One thing that struck me, was that you didn't go to church either on Sunday morning, or did you manage to get to a later service? Why, if your DS doesn't want to go to church with you at your DH's suggestion, does that mean you don't go to church either and you take your DS to the park?

From here, it looks like your DH is trying to stop you both practicing faith, he gets a say in his DS, but not in his DW's faith.

Similar situation here, I'm Christian, DH believes in nothing. DH started off believing that while he didn't have faith, Christianity is cultural too, fine for any DCs to go to church etc. then he came to church with me when DS was born and suddenly got that it is actually against his views

Anyway, the agreement is, I am goign to church on a Sunday morning, I will take the DCs with me and DH can go out mountain biking, if he doesn't want me to take them, then fine, he finds something else to do with them.

DS went through a stage at 3 of not liking sunday school, it was the move from the group that was really just a creche while the parents were in the service to it being actual sunday school, I didn't force it, however it helped that I arranged a couple of playdates with other children who went to sunday school and then it was "XXX is goign to be at Church today, do you want to come along?" and now DS loves it. (And it means that effectively it's a way that both DH and I get to do what we want to on a Sunday morning, he gets to ride, I get to practice my faith, we all get home and have a big roast dinner together)

Very few C of E churches teach creationism or particularly touch on the contentious issues before confirmation classes stage with DCs. (Which is the point you really need to be facing the bigger issues within the faith). At pre-school stage, it's realy just fun with a bible story - often acted out, some colouring, some songs and dancing.

I have backed down on other issues, including the fact that even though I could get DS into the faith school attached to our church that has outstanding status, we've put that as our 3rd choice and put the non-faith 'good' school as our first choice, this was important to DH, mainly because while the school isn't teaching anything particularly extreme, it's outstanding status means that it's over subscribed and only those who are part of the church community get their DCs in, and he wanted to make sure the DCs have friends from different backgrounds and views.

Interestingly, it's only really our athiest friends who think we've made the wrong choice on schools and find it shocking that we're not putting the outstanding faith school as a first choice.

Regardless of taking our children to Sunday School, or not, I think our beliefs are very tightly bound up with who we are, our motivations and actions. It would be impossible to parent without communicating some of these beliefs to our children.

Even though atheist might argue that they have no doctrine to share I do not think a person can be completely without beliefs. Everybody has Cognitive Biases, whether they believe in G(g)od(s) or not. Some hold these biases in ignorance, as they are unaware of them, some are aware of them and choose them within a F(f)aith, which can be religious or not (For example some people might esteem power,fame,money,intellectual Kudos above anything else).

Atthestroke plenty of children grow up in households where parents have opposing views. As long as their parents love, appreciate and respect eachother, this is not a problem. Indeed the child will benefit by growing up in a home wherein exists diverse beliefs/opinions alongside compromise and respect.

Atheism is not about critical thinking, although some atheists may be critical thinkers. It is simply non belief in a god.

It is about critical thinking.

It is about looking at a series of posited statements and creeds and assessing the evidence for their validity.

Religion is about believing without engaging the critical faculties. That is the definition of "faith"

Out of interest, I don't know a single couple who hold diametrically opposing views within a relationship. Except Lucy Mangan and Toryboy, allegedly.

If atheism were defined by critical thinking, no atheists would be smokers, overweight, or abuse alcohol or drugs. Atheism is non belief in a god or gods, no more, no less.

assessing the evidence for their validity.

Essentially, core to my beliefs, as I choose to have Faith, is the belief:

Truth remains beyond our realisation of it.

There is not evidence for everything in life. If you make any plans for the future, for example you are basing your decisions on a kind of faith. What you choose to put that faith in, however, is a matter of choice.

For example:

If you decide to agree with any scientific research, without a thorough personal examination of it, you are putting your faith in the scientists who carried it out and made their observations and conclusions, concerning the results and also the people who communicated the conclusions to you.

So as I see it everybody has some (F)faith and biases....

It is odd that this conflict has only come to light after you had children together.

Have you not talked about this before you had kids, to see if common ground was possible? You know, around the time when you start talking about how many children you would like to have, etc.

When DH proposed to me, he knew that I would be happy to accommodate our different cultures & styles of parenting in many ways but would not raise any child of mine in any religion. He knew this before he decided to have children with me and it has not caused any problems since.

I'm afraid you can't raise DC in a religion when your DH is actively opposed to the idea.