To not want to be a Muslim

[Lostagain]

Ok so I am a Muslim, have 2 dd and married dh is a convert to Islam....
Anyway from a young age I have had a strong pull towards Christianity or aspects of it. I don't believe Jesus is the son of god, but do believe he will return again etc.
Is it a cultural thing? I was born and brought up in the uk, went to a cofe school for a few years then we went to a inner city which was full of Asians- I am Asian but it was horrible, I hated it. Despite this I still sang on the school choir, certain people were horrified at the time, but my mum supported me. In my teens i went a bit religion mad and started wearing a headscarf etc- didn't last long,
i love Christmas and Easter, I sing hymms when I'm washing up i've been to a few church's in my time, funerals weddings etc and to be honest it's so peaceful there.
I have been to mosques it was ok,actually I couldn't wait to get out of there....Maybe it's a language barrier
I haven't spoken to anyone about this as it is such a big thing -changed my name on mn but sometimes I just don't want to be a Muslim. I want to bring up my children with faith and I struggle to explain the Muslim faith.

I'm sure there is the odd sentence in the above which makes sense :)

I have to say that this really made me though:

"if you were asked to eat a sweet. One has been in a wrapper. The other left uncovered on the side. Say both fell onto the ground. Which would you eat? The one from the wrapper. Because that has been protected from dirt. Same as a muslim woman the cloak she wears covers her from the filth of non mehram (a man who is 'safe' to have uncovered hair like son husband father brother etc etc). So when she's married she's pure and untouched."

You are not a candy to be picked up and owned by some future husband, and you don't have to stay unseen and untouched until marriage! You are a person who can have any experience she wants. And if you get dirty in the meanwhile (while mountain climbing, deep sea diving, mud wrestling, or sex) you have a nice hot shower and you will be nice and clean again.

Lost - I don't think Quran is really contradictory. What nailak posted further down were hadiths (alleged sayings of Mohammad) which sometimes contradict what Quran says.

If I were to believe, I would just follow the Quran because it clearly states that it is complete, perfect, fully-detailed, and all you need to know to be a good Muslim. Which means you don't have to cover from head to toe in a black garbage bag (just dress moderately, have a scarf on your head to cover your bosom with) and you can drink in moderation, for example.

Cote

Yep maybe that is a problem when people are quoting hadiths thinking there are from the Quran so people end up believing hadiths rather than what's actually in the Quran. -

Ok I know the above doesn't make sense much, but I know what I mean :)

nailak knows that what she quotes is Hadith and not Quran (she actually names the guy who has written the Hadith), but maybe the distinction is not clear to others who read them on this thread and elsewhere.

Thanks cote- agree with what you have said

This has all made for very interesting reading.

Are there really no ridiculous stories, Cote? I read somewhere that Islam has a story about the moon being split, but I have no idea where it came from.

Personally, I think that if my husband tapped me on the shoulder with a toothbrush (!) in an attempt to discipline me, I would probably die of laughter . The idea that I should "correct" my behaviour to suit him is frankly ludicrous. If he doesn't like the way I behave, then he is probably married to the wrong person. When we have disagreements, we usually talk them through, not threaten each other with toothbrushes!

And I agree with Cote's post about not being a piece of candy. So what if my husband had sexual experiences before meeting me? What does it matter, he is a human being, not a block of wood, of course he wanted to have sex.

Can someone explain to me the status of the hadith? I was under the impression that they were an integral part of Islam, but it seems from Cote's post that the Quran is all you need?

'Divorce is not something that muslim cultures are blasé about. So we really think about who we choose to marry. There are no quick weddings in Vegas/divorces after 72 days taken as the norm. So yes that is empowering!! Sex before marriage is also not really accepted. Girls may fool around but even the most liberal don't really have sex before marriage. The sanctity between husband and wife is kept'

Nope. Muslim 'cultures' are just as shit at marriage as 'western' cultures. I see convert after convert marrying a born muslim with 'nikah' only. Which holds no legal weight in the UK at all. He promises he will do the legal thing later. Then he reveals another legally married wife up in Bradford or Pakistan or Egypt or wherever. The woman then finds she has no rights.
Or the 'marrying for papers'.
I'd like to see the community dealing with this.

Cote the virgin birth is in Islam, surah maryam, there is a whole surah dedicated to Mary, and she is one of the four noble women in islam.

There are other stories, like the mirage, the story in surah kahf about the youth and the dog in the cave.

As for hadith, the majority of Muslims follow the opinion that we are commanded to follow the ways of Muhammad pbuh, and that the science behind collecting hadiths is reliable.

There are different classifications of hadith. The top one above sahih is mass transmitted hadiths, which include things like the prophet sas last sermon, that lots of people heard. Scholars say these hadiths have same status of authenticity as quran, and disbelieving in them is a kuffr, or a belief that can tale you out of the fold of ahl sunna wa jammah, which means the majority group in Islam. Which basically means you may not be considered muslim bby other Muslims.

This matters because of some rules are different, such as some women won't uncover in front of non muslim women, inheritance laws are different, obviously a muslim woman cannot marry a non muslim man etc.

So anyway below that we have sahih hadith which are authentic and verified, and different classifications until we get to daeef which is weak or falsified.

Cote its your turn now

Personally I have nikkah only. Registry seems like a waste of time and expense, maybe on my tenth anniversary I will do it.

And anyway I am not against polygny. I doubt my husband will ever have the means to have a second wife. If I booked the registry he would turn up. But I wouldn't want to stop the option of marrying again. There may be a time I want him to.

the problem with hadith is that hundreds were made up to support whatever ruler at the time wanted backup. Sifting them 300 years later is hardly going to be accurate. And even human memory at the time of the Prophet can be faulty. Its all 'the Prophet said or did this....'
I reckon anything vital will be in the Quran. So if its was vital for a man to have a beard to get into heaven then it would be in the Quran. If it was vital not to listen to music it would be in the Quran. Neither of the above is yet there are numerous hadith banning music, dogs, etc and insisting on beards or whatever.

What about vital to pray 5 times a day?
Vital to know how to do hajj?

Vital to know how to pray zakah?

Vital to know the rulings of fasting? Or wudhu?

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/Ulum/ if anyone is actually interested on science of hadith.

that means nailak, you have none of the legal rights of a registered marriage in the UK (if you're in the UK). That includes, among other things, the right to see him in hospital (if you fell out with his family and he was sick you'd not be let in as their wishes are paramount)
Al women should think about the legal protections of marriage. Which is why I insisted that we were legally married even though dh didnt consider it important. You'll also find that although illegitamcy carries few issues nowadays, it does for stuff like emigration to certain countries. For your children. dd1 was born before our registry office wedding. We had to go and formally legitimise her in order to move to the US.

None of those things add to or contradict the Quran. We are told to pray/fast/pay zakah/go on hajj. The hadith set out accepted ways of what is already mentioned.
The 'do not pluck your eyebrows and if you're a man grow a beard' hadiths add something that isnt there. Do you honestly think God cares about eyebrows and beards and that heaven will be decided on that?

But our birth certificates say married. We didn't need to take our marriage certificates.

kal and nailak - I just read your posts about the toothbrush/miswak tap. I want to remind you that even if you find it 'weird' or that you disagree with it, the fact is, Allah has stated it as a way to correct the woman after the previous precautions such as forsaking her bed etc. Kal you said you disagreed with me saying about hitting a woman. I think you need to re-read my post because I never once said it was ok to hit a woman, I stated that, from my Islamic evidence in the Qur'an and hadith, that a light tap may be used. I also gave the reference to the prophet's wives who were well known for their verbal diagreements or debates with him, so to make known women arent to be walked over or not allowed to have a voice.
Just wanted to make that crystal clear.

Personally I think eyebrows n easy thing to do or refrain from, and if you do it with intentions of pleasing Allah you will be rewarded. And I need all the good deeds I can get.

What about tattoos then?beard etc is a

kal - with regards to eyebrows and beards, remember the ayat in the Qur'an where it states we are to obey the messenger of Allah and follow him, what he says it ok, take from it, what he says is not ok, abstain from it.
So for me, if I know the authenticity of a hadith and if it is saheeh, I will be obeying what I have been told. There is a ton of wisdom and a hell of a lot more behind things we may initially find distasteful etc. The son of Adam is well known for his desire to follow his nafs (self) and its not for us, as humans, to be like, 'oh well God will forgive me even if I deliberately go against the messenger' etc. That's not right. period.

Yes I agree Allah has prescribed it, it is permissible. Inshallah I hope any disagreements would get resolved before that by talking and separation.

And I pointed out that some scholars are now saying its a mistranslation stmoritz.

which scholars kal? Please give reference

Nailak you don't want to regIster?? We have registered because if my husband passes away before me I would want our family to be financially secure.

There is no way he would even want to marry another woman, he lOves me and our family. And he is intelligent enough to know he can't handle sniping bitching wives and competitive children scheming for the inheritance!! And he is already worried about school fees for 2 babies!!!

I understand why culturally in Mohammed saw's time polygamy was fine. But there is no lOnger social stigma on divorcees - they can remarry more easily now in Islamic cultures. They don't need a man to take them in. Widows can remarry/financially support themselves so they don't need to be the other wife of a man taking them in to support them.

'So for me, if I know the authenticity of a hadith and if it is saheeh, I will be obeying what I have been told'

You are obeying a scholars opinion unless you have a time machine. And we all know many disagree with each other over interpretation and even more wouldnt know the qualifications of scholar X or Y or understand the different schools etc
Common sense.
Anyway, I'm off. Neighbours music being pounded through the walls and I'm going bonkers. This is a time when I wish music was banned.

Kal I asked for rferences? I feel like you have kind of fobbed me off by quoting my post...I need a reference and evidence to state that what you said is true.

I do research and seek knowledge on a regular basis and am very interested in things like tafseer and the arabic translation, and I have never ever heard of the issue of miswak/tap being said to be 'mistranslated' by any well known scholars or islamic academics.

How am I obeying a scholar's opinion by the way if what I am obeying is stated in hadith or Qur'an. I want to remind you not to be so blase about what you are saying because we will all be judged for this and for the effect we have on others reading it. I'm not going to sugar coat Islam and tell people to cherry pick what they want or to disregard some things because they are not to their taste. Islam is about truth and I feel like you need to do more research before speaking like that, inshaallah.
Have a good day. asalaamalailkim

mustgettogym - I know people, friends also, who are co wives and are in happy marriages, and the co-wife issue works great with some, who are practising in their deen and are strong in their imaan.